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Woven Metals
Artmetal Chat SessionNovember 19, 1998Woven Metals with jeweler, Mary HuMary Hu, Guest |
| Keith - I'll begin this by showing you an example of Mary's work. Mary, how did you get started with weaving metals? Mary - I was taking a fibers course in loomless weaving techniques, such as macramé, and a metalworking course in the same quarter. Mary - I was experimenting with the macramé knots and was running out of time in the quarter, so I decided to try to do the macramé with wire, make a piece of jewelry and maybe I could get credit for weaving and metals classes with one piece. |
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Keith - And what was the reaction?
Mary - It worked. My metals teacher encouraged me to experiment with wire and it became my thesis project.
Keith - What did your fibers professor have to say?
Mary - He assigned me to do two pairs of earrings per week to push ideas in the wire - this before I could continue with any other project that I had going.
- It was fine with my fibers professor - she had already commented that I sure did not have a sense for color , but that I was much more interested in structure.
Wray - Mary, what type of wire were you using at first ? dia. and metal
Mary - My first experiments were with brass and that was killing my fingers, so I ordered some fine silver.
Mary - Being in Southern Illinois (Carbondale), we ordered from CR Hill. They sold fine silver wire down to 26 gauge before tacking on extra charges, so at first I used 26 ga.
Wray - Does, anybody know what the thousands of an inch measurement of 26 ga. silver wire is?
Dick - .016
Susan E. - How long ago was this Mary?
Mary - I started this in the fall of 1966.
Susan E. - This makes me feel better Mary--you've had time to develop this skill!
Keith - Mary, is there a tendency for the wire to kink and/or become brittle while working it? I assume that is the reason why you chose to use fine silver?
Mary - I soon decided wire macramé was not for me and started to explore different twists and wraps. Herbert Maryon in his book Metalwork and Enameling
Jay - That's a great book, I have my copy right here in front of me.
ginger - Can you explain the process for this piece?
Mary - Doing what he says, and then trying it opposite, combining one around another, either twisting or wrapping gave lots of interesting textured lines. The piece Keith has showing, Neckpiece #18 from 1974, was after a bit more experiments. I call it the chain
| Mary - Keith, maybe we can show them diagram #4.
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Mary - Each row of loops is hung onto the loops in the previous row.
Mary - One has to have a free end of wire and feed it through and pull it down to the desired size.
Wray - Mary, do you have to splice ( weld) wire together ?
Mary - There are several ways of achieving this structure, but that is the way I started - when I needed something which looked like bird wings
Mary - In doing this type of work, I work with enough wire - a separate one for each row. When doing some other processes, I either hide the ends when I run out or change color, or butt solder if using silver or gold.
Keith - The softness and sort of dead nature of fine silver makes it easier to adjust the size of the loop without kinking?
Mary - The diagrams at the top of this image I also call looping. I work with a heavier core wire, one finer gauge to do the wrapping and as many other finer ones as I will want loops at the same time.
| Mary - Keith, lets show photo #12. Wray - Mary, do you plan all the details out before attempting a piece, or do you let the piece evolve as you make it?
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Keith - OK, let's look at http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvdmolp2.jpg
| Mary - Also #11 Mary - I am pretty squeaky tight in my approach to wire work They are mostly pretty well planned out. More so earlier, less so now that I can think in wire.
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Keith - and http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvdmolps.jpg
Wray - Mary, picture # 12 what size and type of wires?
Mary - For this work, I was using 22 gauge core and 26 gauge to wrap or loop.
Keith - Mary, did you tend to sketch out your ideas initially? Now that you "think in wire," it sounds as though you don't.
Mary - The early pieces were drawn out exactly - a dull pencil point was about 26 gauge.
Mary - As you saw in the previous picture, I work with my fingers and fingernails. I do not use a loom, or even jigs to gauge size.
Wray - Mary, what was the gauge on Image #23, the first piece that we saw.
Mary - Wray, If you mean the colored piece... the gold wings were 20 gauge. The heavier wires around the neck were 14 ga.
Keith - I assume there must have been a great deal of experimentation, particularly early on. Did the experimentation partially begin when drawing out your plans?
Wray - Do you have a paper template, to follow?
Mary - Wray, for the gold wings, yes, I did. I would work the loops right on top.
Gene - When you say "core" and "wrap" or "loop" the core is basic structure and the loops are the seed for fabric and laced to the core with "wrap"?
Mary - The core is the inner one, around which the wrapper is wrapped.
ginger - Mary your work is very nice.
Mary - Thanks, Ginger.
Wray - Mary, do you make multiples of your designs, or are they all one offs?
Mary - All the pieces are one-offs.
| Mary - As I experimented wire ways to use the wire, I tried braiding, knitting and weaving. My own favorite became a type of weaving called twining. I have been doing that since 1974.
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Keith - How about a look at a diagram of twining then? http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvtwninx.jpg
Mary - Well, almost all. There are just a few designs I make for friends which I do repeat.
Keith - Mary, is there one of your pieces that best exemplifies twining we can look at?
ginger - Mary do you anchor your wire?
Mary - it was asked a bit ago if I tied down the ends. No, I am working like basketry rather than like a loom for cloth.
| Mary - Keith, try #20 Tony B - Mary, please explain the extra "v" wire in the first diagram of twining |
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Keith - Let's look at http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvmlh03.jpg
Mary - The V is how I add warp(the heavier gauge wires around which the weft, or smaller gauge ones twine.
- For instance, if you want your basket to swell out and still keep the same density of texture, you need more warps.
Tony B - I haven't had the opportunity to make anything in this style but love the chance to learn
Wray - Mary, what is the heaviest gauge wire that you can weave , without having your fingers bleed?
Susan E. - this is just amazing
Mary - This piece was twined from end to end. The warps were long enough to flow around the neck and were bent in the waves as I twined over them.
ginger - When twining would a 22 gauge work or should one go smaller?
Keith - So, in the last image we're looking at, a series of v's is inserted more toward the middle of the structure and allows it to seem quite dense while as it undulates through space?
Mary - You can weave or twine over very heavy warp, it is the weft, the one that goes over and under that must be fine the way I work.
Mary - I Like about an 8 to 10 gauge difference between the two. In this piece I used 28 gauge weft I think.
ginger - Thanks
Mary - The warps were actually 20 gauge on the edges and graduated up towards the center.
Susan E. - Can you still solder or anneal the coated copper wires?
Mary - Also, the warp is sterling and the weft fine silver.
Mary - The coated copper wires (seen in #21 Keith) cannot be heated.
| Mary - Keith, can we try 21 to a answer Susan's question about the coated wires. |
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Keith - Now take a look at http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvmlh03.jpg
Susan E. - How do you anchor your warp?
Mary - Susan, as I said, I am doing this like basketry, so I do not anchor the warp. I just twine across the row of them and hold them all in my hand. It is a little tricky to get it to not fall apart at first, but gets tight as soon as several rows are done.
Susan E. - wow
Mary - Thanks. In this piece, since one cannot heat the coated wires, I use silver warp and the coated copper wires for weft. I blend them into silver or gold towards the ends and then can tack down the ends of the twining.
Susan E. - Mary, when you twine, are you pulling the weft off of the spool, or from little annealed coils?
Mary - If I were twining a really large piece, I would work from little spools. For my work lately however, I have to draw my weft wires down to 30 or 32 gauge, so use little annealed hanks(coils).
Susan E. - How long are the pieces that you draw down to work with? (Sorry, I come up with questions too fast)
Mary - The length of the wires I draw are what I have come to as being what I can handle without too much tangle. I buy wire in 24 gauge - the smallest my supplier will supply) and draw down to 30 ga.
Keith - Good question, Susan
Mary - I start with about 12 feet of 24 ga. - two out stretched arm lengths, and
Wray - Mary, that's outstanding! Some of the wires look flattened, do you roll or hammer them?
Mary - I use only round wires and do not flatten them. I decided long ago that my game rules only permit round wires. Then I can bend them in any direction (flat only goes up or down) and one cannot notice if they twist (one would with square)
Keith - Wray posed a good question about whether you hammer or roll out the wires at all. Are they flattened at all?
Mary - In the early work, I was using a wire like a line in drawing. I did not want to draw attention to the wire as must as to what it delineated.
Susan E. - on the piece displayed (#21?) are the warp ends folded under at the bottom? How do you secure that edge?
Mary - One can, of course, flatten the wires and get quite a different look. Just be careful not to flatten a complex system too much or they will act like wire cutters on themselves and fall apart.
Keith - Mary, as your work progressed did you want the individual wire to become more dominant at all?
Mary - Keith, actually, now the individual wire is less important
Keith - Mary, Susan asked the following question which seems quite important to all of this. " on the piece displayed (#21?) are the warp ends folded under at the bottom? How do you secure that edge?"
Mary - Susan, the bottom of the warp wires in the orange piece are melted into balls and that tends to hold that last row of twining on. They are turned under so cannot be seen from this view.
danz - Mary, I've missed a lot. I'm sorry. Do you make up bundles of wires and cut them like cross sections?
Mary - Danz, I am not sure I follow your question.
danz - Mary visualize the cross section of a stranded copper electrical cable. If sliced across, the cross section of 'ends' might be interesting.
- An example of what I'm thinking: a bundle of copper wires say 10 ga. dipped into molten solder and allowed to solidify. Taken to a mill and clean off and then with a section sliced off, you'd have a 'thing' with interesting possibilities for design....
Mary - Yes, I think the cross section of cable ends could make a great parquet if soldered side by side.
Susan E. - (I'm sitting here with my spool of 30 ga in my lap now)
| Wray - Mary, the melted balled ends are done with a jewelers torch? Mary - I ball the ends of sterling to get a drip shape like in the diagram with a cool torch - like a bernz-o-matic.
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Keith - Mary, I'm assuming this image is worth taking a look at now? http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvmltend.jpg
Susan E. - Do you usually bundle two pieces of the small gauge for the twining weft?
Mary - I like the look of two round wires running parallel, so yes, I am using double wires for weft. Have to keep them from twisting, but I am willing to take the trouble.
ginger - Mary, have you ever woven in wax then cast that piece?
Mary - No, I have not woven wax and then cast. I have students who try, but I say why do something which takes so much more process, equipment, and possible failure when the first act of weaving and its done.
Keith - And quite honestly, casting woven waxes will always look cast and will never have that clean and controlled look that woven material can.
ginger - Very true, but one does like to experiment.
danz - Mary, are wires of different materials difficult to use side by side?
Mary - I think if the two wires of different material are of similar hardness (or softness) it should work fine. Might be a problem if one is soft and one hard.
| Mary - I almost only work in gold now. Keith - Mary, at what point and for what reasons did you begin to introduce gold wire into your work?
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Keith - Let's take a look now at http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvmlh04x.jpg
Mary - I had been encouraged to do so ever since grad school by my teacher and others... but I was fearful of the cost. I started to introduce it slowly - as pattern in the twining like tapestry for instance.
Susan E. - YES YES YES, Awesome piece!!!!
danz - Wow! Is that of wire? What's the overall scale?
Mary - Or blending from the coated wire to gold. then in 1985, I was given a challenge by my gallery in NY to do a large gold collar in celebration of the Met opera guild's 50th anniversary;.
Mary - I loved working in gold and have not gone back to silver. I can afford to as I have found that gold sells more quickly than silver.
Dick - Mary, the bracelet looks like a high karat. What karat and alloys do you prefer?
ginger - Mary is the stone your using lapis? That piece is fantastic
Keith - Mary, I introduced the gold bracelet with lapis. This is a rare occurrence in your work, at least to my knowledge. Can you comment on this?
Mary - I am working with 18 karat warps and 22 k wefts. the warps are 20 gauge (or maybe 21) except for several 14 gauge pieces.
Mary - Yes, it is lapis. I like the color combination. I have rarely used stones in my work. I have so much play of light off the wires that I thought faceted stones would compete.
- I also did not want to just stick on a stone for embellishment, so tried to make it an integral part of the form.
danz - Ignorant newbie: Does the gold wire you use have a polished surface before you use it?
Keith - Were there engineering problems involved in establishing a sort of housing for the lapis and allowing for a place for the woven portion to begin and end?
Mary - I did two bracelets with lapis and just finished a string of beads last year using some 18mm lapis along with twined tubes.
Mary - The lapis is bezeled on both ends. That is why it flares larger on both ends.
Keith - Danz, wire generally comes pretty well "polished" from the supplier. Also, when drawing wire to a thinner diameter, the draw plate will generally leave a polished surface also.
Mary - The woven tube just ends where it is soldered onto that part that sticks out a bit . then there is a hammered sheet tube, another ring that sticks out, then the bezel.
Dick - I didn't notice the flare in the stone. Nice
Keith - Ah, I should have caught the flaring ends of the lapis.
Mary - I do not own a polishing machine. I use a brass scratch brush and soapy water at the end to give a soft scratch brushed finish.
Mary - My whole approach is low tech and low overhead. Use my fingers as much as possible, no chemicals except pickle.
Dick - No polishing machine! I like it!
| Mary - Keith, maybe show them #24 Keith - If setting up to practice this sort of procedure, what sorts of equipment could one feasibly get by with?
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Keith - Let's look at http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvmlh05.jpg
danz - 10 fingers is a great start <grin>
Mary - Wire cutters, several pairs of pliers will get you weaving.
Keith - This piece really fascinates me. I think it's amazing that such a controlled pattern can be incorporated into the woven surfaces.
Wray - I'm having a hard time figuring out a favorite. That's beautiful!
Mary - I thought I would mention doing patterns in the twine. They are simply achieved by not weaving or twining over every warp, but over 2 or 3 sometimes. I call this floating.
danz - We've grown too far away from process in our shrink wrapped age....
Wray - That has to be the most difficult piece, to do.
Mary - Keith, the nature of woven surfaces GIVES you a controlled pattern. It is hard to get a free formed pattern.
Mary - You just count 1,1,1,3,1,1,1,3, etc.
danz - Mary how do you hold pieces while you work? and what size is #24?
Keith - Yes, I would imagine a free form pattern would be most difficult to make happen, at least in a controlled manner.
ginger - Is that jade on the corners and is there a base that this is warped around on this one?
Mary - The corners are 14 K gold, thin sheets. The woven part butts up to the silver "donuts" on one side of them and the gold sheet on the other.
Keith - So, what appears as the dark area at each corner is gold sheet?
Dick - The woven parts are soldered to the corner parts?
ginger - Yes ,it has a green tint from here.
Mary - Yes, the corner parts are gold sheet. 14 K is pretty pale, that is why I switched to 18 and 22. I like the color.
Keith - Yes, 18 to 22 karat golds definitely establish a superior contrast to silver.
Dick - Mary, do you have any workshops scheduled?
Mary - Dick, not in wire at this time. I will be doing a one week one with Lynda Watson in Mendocino at the Art Center in June. I will be showing various chain structures and Lynda will show several techniques people can use to make a bead of pendant to go wit
Keith - Well everyone, midnight has rolled around. I don't know if Mary has had enough of this or is willing to carry on a bit. What do you think?
Mary - Yes, it is late for some of you. We did not get to knitting and I think Susan was interested in it. She is off. I am game for a bit more, or another time.
Susan E. - I'm still here Knit away!!!!!
Susan E. - I'm sitting here playing with the wire in my lap....
danz - Keith, It might be nice to include Mary's email address and/or URL for a website if that is acceptable to her in the archived record.
Mary - My email is mhu@u.washington.edu
| Mary - I think Susan might be interested in the knitting. The diagram is #7 and photos are #17, 18 and 19.
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Keith - #7 is at http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvknitng.jpg
Mary - This is a knit structure. I use a crochet hook rather than a knitting needle to do it.
Susan E. - When I tried to crochet the fine silver, I had trouble pulling my stitches tight enough to suit me
Keith - The other three are:
#17 - http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvdmcrch.jpg ,
#18 - http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvdmknt1.jpg ,
#19 - http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/project/chat/jewelry/wvdmknt2.jpg
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Mary - I probably cannot answer crochet questions as I do not crochet - thread or wire.
Susan E. - Similar process, dealing with the tension on the fiber... pulling it up to tighten the previous stitch
Mary - If you triple back - poke the hook through the third loop down and over lap the loops, it makes a dense structure that looks like the loop-in-loop chain.
danz - Mary, I just looked at Image #19 and it is very organic looking.
Mary - However, since this is a cold process, it can be done with the coated wire.
Mary - It can also be done larger and smaller - which is much harder to do in loop-in-loop.
Wray - Mary, do you weave full time, and also conduct classes too?
Mary - I teach full time at the University of Washington - beginning to graduate students. As with most teachers, I get to do my own work at night, week-ends, summers and the occasional day off of teaching in which there is not a meeting I have to go to.
Susan E. - Mary, are you teaching metals or fibers or both?
Mary - I teach metals. I teach a class in the wire work once every other year.
Wray - Do you sell your work in galleries,? Have you sold anything online yet?
Mary - I sell through galleries. I have not sold online. I do not have a web page... I have only figured out email and a bit else on this computer.
Keith - Mary, let's say someone wants to know more about these processes. Are there texts that you might particularly recommend?
Mary - The best all around one is Arline Fisch's "Textile Techniques in Metal"
Mary - Other than that, I look at textile books. Joan Michaels Paque has written one, "A creative and conceptual analysis of textiles
Keith - Also, Mary, do you teach shorter classes at places such as Penland, Arrowmont, and similar places?
Mary - For braids - a whole, wide open field to explore, there are books on straw craft and corn dollies, Kumohimo (Japanese silk braiding, Victorian hair work, sling braiding of the andes...
- I look at baskets - from goodwill, pier 1 etc. Look at their structure.
danz - Mary have you ever tried loom weaving? - With metal, I mean?
Mary - I have never tried loom weaving with wire. It can be done. Arline suggests using string heddles instead of metal ones to not put bends in the warps.
danz - Heddles are the things that move up and down to create pattern?
Mary - Yes, heddles are the things you feed the ends of the warps through to lift up certain ones at a time.
Susan E. - Have you done much braiding with wire?
Mary - Look at sailor's knots, leather braiding, like for belts or bridles...
Mary - Braiding is a huge category which I have only just started to explore. Some of the Viking torcs were braids. they used some patterns similar to the Japanese silk Kumohimo cords which they tied their armor plates together with.
Mary - o some of the Victorian hair braid watch fobs and bracelets were the same systems.
danz - There is a lot of stuff in antiquity that was discrete designs like knots and such. Dover books is a remarkable source for this kind of material.
Wray - It is amazing how many different possibilities that can be explored.
Keith - Mary, do you teach shorter classes at places such as Penland, Arrowmont, Haystack, and similar situations?
Mary - I used to do the summer programs a lot - in the 70's and 80's. Then I realized that they were in the summer - when it is nicest in Seattle and I have cut back on doing them.
Susan E. - Mary, where did you do your undergrad work?
Mary - I got a BFA from Cranbrook near Detroit - back in the days they let undergrads in. I knew from the time I was 16 that I wanted to work in metal.
Wray - Mary, you were inspired by someone?
Mary - I grew up in a small town outside of Cleveland. I used to see John Paul Miller's work in shows. INCREDIBLE. It was this that gave me a standard to what I thought contemporary studio goldsmithing could be.
Mary - Then in grad school, my teacher, Brent Kington was an inspiration as to his attitude towards work. HE WORKED. Also towards the field - that it was a community and one should be involved in it.
Mary - It is a bit hard to have a conversation like this, but it sure is interesting that it can be done.
Keith - And let me add that this whole environment is very new to Mary. She's being a great sport.
Susan E. - She's being a wonderful sport
Keith - John Paul Miller's work is amazing to see.
Wray - He worked in wire as well?
Keith - Wray, JPM didn't really work in wire, at least to my knowledge.
Mary - No, he forges or forms pieces somehow - no casting, and then covers them with granulation and enameling.
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Mary - I have had the great privilege of handling a piece once. All fabricated - I believe no solder, all granulated together.
- His enamels were so clear, I heard that he put the grains in one by one.
Susan E. - Wow, I've heard that you can do that with larger grains of enamel
ginger - Mary you have answered some questions I had that had me a bit stumped on weaving. Thank you so much.
Mary - You are welcome, Ginger. Feel free to ask questions any time and I will try to respond.
Mary - Yes, I am a lurker. I answer a few questions when I think I can be helpful.
Susan E. - I'm so grateful that you are around Mary
Mary - Susan, I really like your enthusiasm for teaching. Our field needs that. Keep it up.
Keith - Well, it's fast approaching 1:00 am here. I expect that Mary's had enough for one night.
Wray - Well, sorry to say, but I'm getting pooped out. Thank you very much Mary, it has been very inspirational. I can see lots of possibilities for using some of the techniques you showed tonight in many different fields of metal work, besides jewelry.
Susan E. - Me too, I'm tired, but I'm thrilled by the opportunity to visit with someone I'm a fan of!
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Keith - I want to thank you, Mary, for so generously sharing your knowledge and expertise here; and all of you who joined us here tonight.
Susan E. - Hugs to you both and thank you so much
Mary - Ok, goodnight all.
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