Log of ArtMetal Live Chat January 29, 1998: - edited by Colene Abramson

Is art a business, or just a great way to Live?

Guest Artist: Bruce Paul Fink

NOTES: Additions to the ChatLog in this color are omitted text from Bruce's responses that were cut in transmission. They add a great deal to the understanding of his work and his life view.

I'm all for getting rich, but don't only refer to money as riches. I have always thought the successful artist was rewarded more directly with items and securities that the money wealthy have to spend their cash for. The necessities are sometimes harder to hang onto than the riches but the continual creative peace of quest and the joy of living have fabulous value.

enrique -The home Bruce shares with his wife, Charlene, is itself a work of art, one that he says is still in progress. And so we begin this evening with a line drawing of Bruce's house... Click on the following url and a new window will appear in front of this with the image file...
http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/village/chat/main/transcrp/00image/fink/housdraw1b.JPG
enrique - Bruce, tell a little about the home/studio you have created and why is it important for you to live out in the boonies? ga
bpfink - Don't know if it's obvious from that but it's basically a seven level home with the studio/ foundry in the tower end and is mostly made out of the materials that grow here. The trees and wood were all cut and shaped or not and it's just very comfortable. I like the boonies more than anywhere else (from Chicago area originally) because you can think and move much more freely. The place that was there burned down in Feb. '76 so it started the next week. For questions on how in the world could green wood building be as good and work. A book by Bruce Hoadley, Understanding Wood-- A craftsman's guide to wood technology is a fascinating tell all. It's where I learned the bulk of it to get started. ga
enrique - Do you feel that this homestead is part of your being an artist? Part of "living art"? ga
bpfink - I think the real art I do is just living it all. Cooking and landscaping and building , etc.
Sculpture is another one, but so is my painting and dancing.
Robin - Is art a business, or just a great place to live?

TMADE - The question about "is it a business" is interesting! The IRS said Yes! It's a business!
enrique - Tmade - Art is a business only if you make an income from it, right? ga
TMADE - From a tax point of view, yes, it's a business. Yes--but expenses may exceed income!
Robin - So, claim your losses. If that's what you do, it's a business. - Not a cold nasty hole filled with a wet smell ...nor a dry sandy hole
TMADE - Exactly--The IRS looks for expenses like advertising to substantiate the business [-loss]
Bri - My art is not a very successful business. It is a great way of life though.
bpfink - The "business " of art can't be viewed on the same terms that the word often implies anyhow. A successful business in these parts includes agreed payments in kind for determined fulfillment's. [If success in business is] paid salaries whether or not the days work was economically productive, paid holidays and sick leave or personal days, paid vacations, a pension and ability to retire and still collect --No artists I know fit that. A contract that can fully guarantee all issues, time schedules, expenditures or social acceptances of the results also robs the creativity of the project. Even an 11 to 16 month commission on my part will certainly turn out better if the initial plan (which often is a drawing with descriptions put together for a committee in a week or two) is allowed to grow and become a series of discovered experiences during the better part of the entire execution. It is also why I prefer to do all my own work from start to installation as none could follow the freedoms of chance and change with the intricacies I could handle myself. I have a monopoly on the results and no one could ever rob the finished outcomes.

Once the problems set up for the quest have been played with and results are forthcoming the answers are exposed and new questions are put into the formula. I will never have the patience to do an edition of a piece unless allowed to play with the variations and new possibilities that make it all exciting.

About 35 years ago while living in the midwest I took a fancy to Lobster which seemed so much nicer than crayfish so I started incorporating the reassembled claws and arms into the casts sculptures as part of a portraiture dream series. in progress. A mold could have been made to to duplicate the claws of one lobster for the entire group but I choose to use a nice fresh delicious one for each truly unique cast. It helped to not matter how fast each one sold as the family was dining well on the very process. If you can't eat it later, why not now?

enrique - Well let's take a look at Bruce's front entry to his home/studio and see how living as an artist is for him... http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/village/chat/main/transcrp/00image/fink/doorXrd1a.JPG
enrique - This is the front rolling entry to Studio / Home Metalized Bronze over resin bonded stone with insulated core. 6 ft diameter x 3.5 inches thick Bruce, where did you come up with this unique entry door to your home? ga
Bri- This drum-shaped thing is an entrance? Wow.
wray - I went on a dark wet night when I visited Bruce, and upon seeing that disc ,I knew I had the right house. He has it lit and it looked to me like a large medallion, it conveyed to me the image of Liberty on the front of a old liberty half dollar. I don't know if bruce intended it that way , but to have a portal with Liberty on the door says a lot
bpfink - The entry was another of those form follows function things when you want a heavy door but don't have the money to buy appropriate hinges. The door rolls open on a simple steel angle iron set into the concrete foundation. I had been doing doors that weigh hundreds of lbs. in copper and bronze for churches, restaurants, playboy clubs and the like so had to do one of some sort for myself - This one also weighs about 600 lb and is in insulated core with resin bonded stone on each side and then metalized with bronze sprayed onto it.
enrique - Why not a plain $49.95 foam core door? Wouldn't it have been cheaper? Is this some sort of landmark? ga
bpfink - Cheaper wasn't the question, this was nearly cheaper as the thing was made from scrap from the fire. for about 90 % - The entire home has utilized all of the wood of the seven huge maple trees that had their bark blown off that night. Part of the 'Art as a great way to live' has been in the discoveries of areas I would rather have avoided if in a paying job with ability to call in a craftsman or repairman. While becoming proficient in many standard occupations needed for generic living there has also been the opportunity to take others along with me and teach through doing skills of trades that are normally more sacred.
The challenge of problem solving has always been a pleasurable thing to me. I prefer the physical media problems the most as I can more easily see and recall the causes of the results that continue to develop over time. ga
enrique - Ok, so we roll this door open and go inside your home...
Studio / Home interior in 23 ft h ceiling living room showing 56" dia. steel wood stove with water jacket that also feeds to the 5000 gallon water storage of the solar tanks behind dry laid stone wall. All green wood construction.
http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/village/chat/main/transcrp/00image/fink/room1a.JPG
bpfink - The spiral stairs for three of the levels (seven level house) were the solid maple 9 inch slabs from the bottom of the trees and the tops were used for uprights.This house is only the second I ever built and designed but had to do it without a blue print since the materials were never on hand until I found or cut them.
Robin - When did you learn building? Did you learn power tools as a kid or did you just jump in and pick it up hands on?
bpfink - Come from a woodworking family though I avoided it as much as possible as a kid. I learned it by logic and them poured through arch. manuals to check it all out.
Robin - That's like 16th century shipbuilding.

enrique - Ok, let's head over to the studio and see what kind of workplace Bruce has...
- http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/village/chat/main/transcrp/00image/fink/castfig1a.JPG
enrique - This is a studio wax of 'Charles' being readied for investment.with lower bronze half of figure being broken out of the investment
bpfink - The foundry equipment also is homade and it's a 100% one man operation since I work super long hours and could never hire anyone for what they would want. The key to the studio is in the form of two one ton hoists on a bridge crane - bought it from DBCotton for $600 delivered as scrap and it now runs the length of the shop 60 ft x 30 ft.
TMADE - The key to the studio is the Artist.
enrique - Bruce, care to talk a little about the studio space and how it affects your ability to produce art? ga
bpfink - The tools didn't cost much so there is not an obligation to keep them running to produce their payback - is a real asset to be free to try new media and play with the processes.
Doug - Bruce, do you find 60x30 enough space?- that is the size I have been considering. A wood shop on one end and hot shop on the other
bpfink - That 60 x 30 is often just a series of paths.
TMADE - A series of paths to creativity.
Robin - So, you could conceivably get lost in your own studio?
bpfink - Or hide in it. But ... I mostly work outside in an overhang all year but not at night. Neighbors sleep you know. The real difference is that I work in nearly every medium at some time or another. And it's fun,...but not always the way a business should be programmed.
Doug - Bruce do you tend to do more cast work or forging?
bpfink - I do mostly cast and then fabricate the castings. I like that system as with cold bronze you can assemble and alter so its still somewhat like forging
Chris - Yes, I can easily understand how you have arrived at your form by working this way Bruce. Makes a lot of sense and it also allows you to stretch beyond the limitations of monolithic castings.
Robin - What about scale modeling?
bpfink - For large commissions I do a model but it's only to show others. For myself--well if I can build a seven-level active solar, earth-bermed functioning enjoyment why do a print. When working on something I like to crawl around, assess the light, the air movements around it, the spaces that are voids--just like cooking; no books, just taste buds.
Chris - Well, that's the difficulty we face when doing commissions. We can't always get away with that method of working, although we can understand that from a client's point of view, I guess.
bpfink - I fight for the method myself, but never miss making a point to praise the buyer who will give you the commission and the freedom to let you do as you like. I think getting that freedom is special and very unusual and it's probably because you have sold them something else...integrity and a share of your nature that they will miss part of if they don't free you. - The ability to do a wax and ship it out would be good business if the sales could follow even at a lower selling price. (doubt it would work that way though)' - but the wax out of my hands would never come out the same. so it wouldn't really be as much of the artist as of the converter'
Chris - Enrique and I go round and round on this one Bruce, but I'll behave myself tonight and not get into the integrity versus practicality of commissioned works.
jim - Thanks for the look at a great space

enrique - I get the feeling, Bruce, that you look at daily living through the eyes of an artist. Always creatively looking at situations and bringing out solutions. So where does the business part fit in this wonderful "fairy land" homestead you have built? ga
bpfink - I live, in dollars, below the poverty level, and always have. It's not a goal though.The difference is that I don't need to buy what most do to fill all my needs and desires. The positive rewards for the creative artist can offset all the security issues. I would have to class myself as a comfortable survivor. I've had and lost everything three times, but never saw the loss--at the time-- as an end to what was, but as a chance to take another shot at it all. We learn from losses: Mine were: first was a concussion and amnesia, second a divorce, and third a 100% fire without much insurance. I certainly learned a lot from each, and each has elevated my love of the surrounds. Each time there was more to part with, and each time I would certainly not have chosen the change. But it has always worked out. I truly believe one can learn far more from failing than from comfort, but successes are always the goal.
Chris - Bruce, don't you find that sometimes trying to make do is more expensive in terms of time than doing a commission then using that money to do what you might need to do?
TMADE - Do you think that business should be secondary? ga
Robin - There is a thing called Privileged Poverty-- it is the platform upon which artists and scholars and zoo animals are allowed to reside within this society.
Chris - I like what you said Robin only I don't understand it. Could you elaborate?
TMADE - That word--poverty--bothers me. The life of the artist isn't privileged poverty--but it is privileged.
Chris - I really dislike that concept of privileged poverty. Why think of it that way to begin with? It's a little counterproductive I think. Just consider ourselves as well......doing what we do as best we can do it. I'm living on the edge right now but don't consider myself poor.
enrique - Privileged Poverty huh? I like that! Do we get any tax breaks ;-) ga
TMADE - At the Pearly Gates, perhaps.
bpfink - Re privileged poverty... I do have a lot of millionaire friends and kind hearts that treat me real well at their parties. But then we probably amuse them no end in return.
Bill - The jester wears many hats, bruce.
Robin - I can't buy things on a whim. I live in a strange kind of cross between a castle and a factory, in a more or less ghetto neighborhood. But people tend to pass me old objects, some of which are treasures. The tools I own are exotic, sometimes expensive. I get taken places for art-business reasons that I could never visit otherwise, and spend time in the company of fabulous personalities, some great celebrities, others are perhaps heroes of the under ground... is this not privilege? About Bronze-- I had a lovely snobbery going--"I am a Goldsmith! Keep that SMELLY bronze off my desk!" Then i read Robert Drews. Now I dream at night of pouring bronze. Bruce's work has touched an ancient nerve.

Seriously though, Bruce, do you have any tips for young artists wanting to make a living as artists? Has 30 years brought you any insights?
bpfink -Don't use the success standards of your peers.
Bill - Bruce, by that can I assume that you think we should make our own standards.?
TMADE - And then live by them.
bpfink -The goal is happiness and enough comfort to be able to mentally grow in discovery. A creative life is an easier way to do it than if your occupation saps your best thinking hours. I love bronze casting and will buy ingot before steak but will also carve wood if the metal is gone or the kiln won't fire.
Chris - That's about it in a nutshell Bruce.
bpfink -I think learning is done best when intro-inspecting the causes and effects of an act. It includes the mistakes as well as the successes and I always demand The Right to be Wrong and take a chance. Above all I try to be honest in the decisions and trials (especially to oneself) Honesty is a strange thing as you can sometimes ONLY fool yourself if not consciously trying to unmask it. It is easy to believe in unproductive directions if you base many of the truths of your works (and life) on others statements and professed critiques.
enrique - So, would it be safe to say that artists need to use ALL their creative skills to survive as artists? Don't look at what others do. Find your own solutions, creatively! ga
TMADE - Talk soon about privilege, Bruce.
bpfink - I guess I don't think that much about Privilege since it's been here so long that is near natural now.
Robin - I personally am flipped out by the sheer amounts of energy Bruce has. Are you, like, a pro wrestler, or a motivational genius ? Do you have a relativity condenser, to expand time to accomplish so much?
bpfink - Actually I worry a little about it myself. I only sleep about 3 to 5 hrs a nite and miss meals from just being too busy. Carrot juice and juiced veggies are a real energy source. When I wake up it takes about 60 seconds to get going at a good comfortable speed. The real clue is not probably that at all though.
enrique - What do you think it is Bruce?
bpfink - I love being on this physical plane and find real excitement in manipulating the media. Most of my larger works are done with the concepts of production but are never done in more than one. I'm a designer and Industrial inventor by college training... just didn't follow it.
Chris and I have been sharing some thoughts on other matters of life and it's hard to bring it up here but it may explain a few things. I recall other experiences as clearly as things real from this life. That also is why I started laughing so hard Enrique when you mentioned that it was odd when you said you were a blacksmith and others assumed you did horses. - happened often to me about 160 years ago. Still didn't do them, there was more broken down wagons and tools in kansas.
Bill - Bruce, there were a lot more horses to shoe in 1838! Does your drive come from the work(play)?
enrique - Ok, so we are tuning into something else, eh? Has it got something to do with creativity?
Tapping into those raw juices? Chris has a way to bring up thoughts! Let's have it? ga
Chris - Creativity comes from a place deep within ourselves but maybe we aren't so alone and then again maybe we've been on this route before. Perhaps this is what Bruce is referring to.
Robin - Part of it is input--when I learn about another slice of time, I get motivated to create some of the objects I've been reading about. When I dream or See objects, I always try to make them.
enrique - Robin, what kinds of objects do you dream of and then make? ga
Robin - I've dreamt rings, amulets, findings, once a week-long series of dreams about the Armada resulted in 300 consecutive hours on a Nef pendant.
enrique - That's some detailed dreams Robin! Sounds almost as if you lived it. ga
Robin - The dreams are like life-- normally I don't dream at all (when asleep) but when they come they are like an alternate existence. Sometimes I pick up details, then read about them in books.

enrique - Ok, it's time for another slide. This one of a larger piece...
http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/village/chat/main/transcrp/00image/fink/studio1b.JPG
Tree Top Assembled to bronze tree base resin bonded stone and bronze. Approx. 7 ft. diameter X 8 ft. tall being moved by Modified electric lawn mower body with 2 ton hoist driven by electric washing machine motor on extension cord.
Colene - Oh my, that is an impressive tree.
Robin - It must be insanely exhilarating to be master of such vast creations.
Chris - Is this one of your own studio works or a commission Bruce?
bpfink - That tree is one of the smaller parts of the total unit. and is made to interlace with them when assembled.- This was a commission with the state and it ran over costs by nearly $7500. and that was before a wage.
enrique - Something else that is interesting is the electric lawn mower and wash machine motors which are home made.
bpfink - The way one makes and even handles the works are as much of a days challenge as all else. Few of my family even have seen me work but that's fine as I need not worry about their safety either. I don't even like a dog to stand or follow me around when working,
Colene - Right, Enrique, the rigs are the work of the creative genius scavenger. Love it.
bpfink - and just a few weeks ago it was about the pointy hat.
Colene - Where might we see the whole of it assembled?
enrique - Glad you asked Colene. Here is an image from Bruce's advertisement in "The Guild" book... - http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/village/chat/main/transcrp/00image/fink/eagle.JPG
enrique - top left: Sea Pod Series #10 1992 Bronze 48"H x 19" x 12"Rest: To the Wind Beneath One's Wings. 1991, Bronze and bonded stone 20'H x 16' diam. ga
Bill - Bruce, does that mean you lost money on the deal?
bpfink - The overrun wasn't because of my problems but because what I had intended to do in 6 months took 16 instead. No money once I started and then they reneged on the contracts as written.... we learn. I lost $7500 and had to refinance the house to do it. But I gained a great bond with my son who I hired to do the stonework on the piece {I also did the stone benches but he did all the landscaping and stonework} The loss was also because the state didn't enforce the contract for the soil around the area. The site was left in bank run gravel and it was ugly as sin. So I bought the dirt and did the landscaping.
Bill - I really like the organic pod, as well as the gate.
Robin - Ever read Larry Niven? It's really like a plant from another planet--alien, but organically logical.
Chris - Bruce has others not shown that are in his studio Bill. I would like to see some more of these pods and then there are the incredible gates that Bruce did. Maybe Enrique has a photo of that too. Remarkable piece of work--no, it's brilliant.
Colene - The pods seem from the same alternate universe Chris works in. They are compelling and thought-provoking.
Chris - They are coming from a different place Colene but there is a similarity in the forms though.
bpfink - I started doing the pods in '62 and they are all around here now (I don't really show anymore) and they are highly influenced from my love of scuba diving in Hawaii. (Part of my 'privileged poverty?)

enrique - Ok Chris, here is the last image I have for this evening. And it is of the gates which you speak... http://www.artmetal.com/files/imported/village/chat/main/transcrp/00image/fink/gate1a.JPG
FOX SANCTUARY HABITAT ENTRY GATES Cast Bronze 8 ' H x 13 ' w x 22 " max. depth and FOX POSTAL, LIGHTING, LOCK ENTRY AND COMMUNICATION RECEPTACLE aka 'the mailbox' ga
bpfink - The gates were a commission to be plasma cut out of bronze sheet. So I bought the cutter. when I priced all the materials in sheet stock though I decided I could cast it for less. so it immediately took on a new dimension and form, The postal receptacle companion piece was done because they decided they needed a mail drop in the gate. I convinced them the post office wouldn't do that and had standards of height and location to conform to,... so the box became a combination double keyed entry,gate opener, estate light switch, intercom and has 5 lights recessed in it as well.
Colene - You're right, Chris. The gates are more than remarkable...Bruce, they are So Fine.
enrique - So Bruce, what kinds of projects are you working on now?
bpfink - Pods again and also a couple grave stone markers for the lions club and license plate emblems in aluminum for the fire dept. -still fun though, maybe it's just a way to rest?.
enrique - I guess all of it relates... Part of living,... and casting.
Robin - Part of what impresses me is that your "market" is not only traditional art buyers, but the real world... the Lions Club, the Fire Department.
Colene - Any new processes you are hankering to try out soon? New tools in the works?
bpfink - Every day, actually--new ways to knock off 60 castings that will take little time and not bore me, as I have very little patience for repetition.
enrique - I believe it is good to let folks know that we aren't always creating these wondrous large commissions. We do what we do when we do it. Right?
bpfink - I have only sold two pieces in all of new england since moving here in 1968. My market is word of mouth world wide. Have hopes the artmetal web may spark some local buzz,
enrique - Chris, how about you? You've been working on a couple of different things.
Chris - Right now I'm experiencing "workus interruptus." I'm designing works now for four different clients all of a sudden. That's the worst part of any commission for me....the designing stage. Once that's done then the rest is easy. I just do it but it takes so much time and energy to get to the point before I can start working. Now my own work is on hold.
Robin - Funny thing-- lately production orders have become kinda fun. Figuring out how to load up a flask, how to price, how to squeeze the most work out of the least time-- I wind up working on art commissions way more than I ought, no matter how much I make. This other stuff is like, Easy Money (comparatively)!
bpfink - I think that is probably the biggest key to this art as a business vs. way of life. I'm here for life, if business fits in, okay. But when I check out the next plane, I don't want to think it was a good business but a lesser life, while here. If as an artist I was having a shitty life I'd do something else. If one's happiness depends on others...you do have a problem worth solving.
enrique - So, is art a business, or just a great way to live? Maybe it's both. And it seems that it is not the easiest thing to do, but can be a great way to live. That is, if you don't mind taking the alternative approach to life.
Chris - I don't know if it is an alternative approach Enrique. Maybe for each of us it is the only option open. I'm not sure about that, of course.
Robin - It's not so tough. There was a saying "The poorest goldsmith in Nuremberg lives better than the King of Scotland". To be poor is a relative state, to be an artist here and now is a privilege, and not always in poverty.
bpfink - At least we don't have to live up to any image and it is whatever we make it be.

enrique - Folks, it's getting close to finishing our session for tonight. Would you all like to carry this session over to next week, or do you have anything you would like to cover next week? ga
bpfink - Seems to be enough about me..I would love to focus on others
Chris - Might as well stay with the schedule as written, I guess.
enrique - There is nothing scheduled for next week. Got any ideas? ga
wray - Robin I would like to hear about your castle/factory
Chris - Bruce: thanks for being the guest tonight, I really enjoyed the visit.

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