Stile di Famiglia 3

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Stile di Famiglia 3

KevinW's picture

hope this makes it: done

 done cold on the table with about 10' of leveragehope this makes it: done cold on the table with about 10' of leverageHey Jake and those in the Know. I'm looking at a project that might need a machine like the one Jake used here, a JD2, ( great job Jake). -It looks like you made compound bends with it maby?? Is that so ? -Also what do you think it would do to a piece of 2" sch 40 that was tappered gradually over a couple of feet, I'm asking on account of the wrong size die issue? -finally, what about those big bends. Looks like maby a 3' radius, shurely not a 3' die. I've no experience with this type of machine.KevinW


Rich Waugh's picture

Kevin, The sketch on the

Kevin,

The sketch on the floor looks more like 3' diameter, rather than radius. Might be tough to do that in Schedule 40 pipe without collapsing or crimping. Schedule 80 would do better, I think. I think you could do that on a Hossfeld Bender with the right dies. But I've never tried it so Jake would be the one to ask, for sure.

Rich


Stephen Fitz-Gerald's picture

bending forged tapered pipe

Stephen Fitz-Gerald
It is very difficult to bend an even radius on pre-forge tapered pipe because structurally there are weak points and strong points so if the radius is small it will often collapse. Having said that if the radius is sufficiently large like what you have here,it may work OK.You'll need a jig of the proper radius as a form to bend against once the tube is hot.I have a wall of big rings of various diameters for just this purpose.It's always better to bend cold if you can since the structural integrity of new (unforged) material is even throughout...


eligius1427's picture

I'm so sorry it took me this

I'm so sorry it took me this long to respond, haven't been on Artmetal as much lately due to work(Shame on Me!!!).

All of the bends On Stile where done on the JD2 bender with air hydraulic assist out of 1-1/2 schedule 40 Stainless Steel pipe(just shy of 2" dia). This bender is a tough little cookie and although I had my doubts at first, it handled the stainless just fine. Plain steel bends like butter in comparison and could easily be done with the hand attachment if there weren't too many. As for the radius, I just used one die with roughly a 6" radius for all radius bends. I would then make little 15-20 dgr bends spaced out 1 in apart for the larger radius bends. This resulted in a slight dimpling affect on the inside of the curve which might be pretty obvious on a polished/glossy finish, but nearly disappeared on the sandblasted finish. I was able to get a little twist/spiral action by twisting the pipe while i inched it forward, but the more drastic transitions are actually separate sections of pipe. I had some stainless pipe worked down on a lathe to act like couplers. I would slide one in an end of one curve and tack it in, then put the the other curve on and then twist it to the the appropriate position and tack into place, which is how i was able to get the squirrely S shaped pasta. I then went back and welded it up the sections together, ground the welds almost flush with with the grinder and finished the weld with a CS Unitec pipe sander(an expensive, but wonderful little gem of a sander) till it disappeared. Even though I was using a die, there was still a little crushing of the pipe on the tighter bends, but it was not very noticeable when i was all finished. I imagine if the bends were shallow enough, you might be fine with the tapered pipe. another trick I've read about, but haven't tried, is filling the pipe with sand and welding a cap on the ends. Then the piece acts more like a solid bar and supposedly doesn't crush as easily. I'd be careful bending the pipe hot without the appropriate radius die as the fulcrum and contact points on the bender will crush the red hot metal very easily in these spots when doing short bends like i did with the wrong size die. The great thing about the JD2 is that it is very basic bender and you could probably make a simple set of"dies" that might allow you do this with the steel hot.

Here is the URL to the Construction Picts of the Fork that shows a little bit about how I did the pipe bending and fork construction. They are not edited, just all of the picts I took throughout the process.

I don't know how to make a link on here, but here is the url

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63962035@N07/sets/72157626814909289/

Hope this helps

Jake

Jake Balcom
Mettle Design
Lincoln, NE


KevinW's picture

Quite all right, No

Quite all right, No apologies necessary,I'm glad your busy!

I'm working with 1 1/2" "black iron" forging tapers as in the picture and hammering the entire lengths so they'll be 'pre-dimpeled' a very forgiving surface. This is for a chandelier, 5' tall and 7' across, that will resemble those antler chandeliers you see everywhere. I've found that anneled pipe bends very nicely and did the piece pictured cold using a hole in my table as a kind of stationary bending fork - pulling down on the other end of the pipe. Pretty slow, and, as I feed the pipe through the hole 3" at a time I loose sight of the bent end, not ideal for the 60ish feet required. I do have a place to hide the welds though -- thats some slick work with the couplers !

I've done the sand trick b-4. Its a good one for hot work. I'm gonna post a floor lamp I did a while back. I quinched the end of that taper and hammered it on the far side of the anvils horn - just like solid stock but with a more judicious use of force. I think you can use the sand filled pipe for many forging opperations but CAUTION, I've popped pipe doing a half lap joint in sq. tubing. That sand is hot! You've got to account for volume of sand in that tubing. Larger bends work fine with empty annelied pipe.

I don't have any type of bending machine. I've only the very slightest bit of experience with this type of machine. AND I really appreciate the link to all those pics. Congradulations on the documentation ( or the determination to see it through)! It really puts into prospective the ammount of work that goes into a project like that, something few people will ever realize.

About compound bends, 'fork picts-construction 163 and 164', is that one piece, I'don't see any grinder marks? If that noodels ~ 5' long I'd be trying to get a fair bit more out of a single piece of sch 40.

KevinW


Rich Waugh's picture

Kevin, Do you have either a

Kevin,

Do you have either a heavy steel bench you can weld a couple of pins to or a big post vise solidly anchored? You can make a quick "bending fork" to go in the vise or weld a couple pins on a steel bench top and then you can see the whole pipe while you're bending. A bit of experimenting with spacing on the bending pins will tell you the best spacing for the bends you want to do.


eligius1427's picture

Ya, the piece pictured on

Ya, the piece pictured on slide 163 and 164 is one piece, roughly 6' long. the two curves that are at a right angle to each other have a small straight section between them and the S shaped end was created by flipping the piece around in the bender and working backwards. I only had a couple that I was able to finish as one piece, most I had to cut into pieces.

Jake

Jake Balcom
Mettle Design
Lincoln, NE


KevinW's picture

Exelent, thanks again for

Exelent, thanks again for the pics.KevinW