Re: METAL PHOTO ETCHING

Posted by R. Garcia on July 14, 19100 at 10:12:15:

In Reply to: METAL PHOTO ETCHING posted by Roberto on August 24, 1997 at 12:44:33:

: To:

: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu

: hello, I am looking for a company to provide photo-ecthing services on aluminium or magnesium or whatever metal works best to acheive the results I need. I need deep etch and I'll provide all the appropriate camera ready artwork. This service should be reasonably priced and provide excellent shipping and receiving methods. In addition, billing methods must be reasonable. I have used such a service in the past but that was several years ago and I still understand the basic methods. By trade, I am a jewelry designer and wax sculptor and and will continuosly employ this service. I have used the system that Rio sells and find it suitable for my needs. This will be my alternative.

Thanks for anyones input.

Rod......

: hello

: I am new to the list and wondered if anyone can suggest a good book on

: photo etching techniques-I am working on a series and am interested in

: incorporating photo etching into my work.

: Thanks, shawn

: p.s. have enjoyed the postings!!!

:

: There are some photo-etch. products available at radio shack, and I think

: they,

: are also available, some jewlery supply, also you can call Kodak,

: at 1-800-242-2424, they will direct you to the correct dept., just tell

: then

: what you want to acomplish and the may be able to help you.

: I would try Radio Shack first and see if they carry a liquid photo-etch

: resist,

: and instructions to get you started.

: The basic process is, first create a piece of artwork, without gerys, then

: you have

: to produce a litho negative or positive, (lith negs are solid black with

: clear lines,

: lith positives are made from the negatives and have totally clear

: background

: and

: solid black lines.

: Next the copper or brass or alum, or glass, or what ever, is scrubbed very

: very

: clean, and then dryed, very dry.

: Next the piece is then coated, (very even coating helps) and dryed.

: Keep the piece in the dark untill you are ready to expose.

: Next place the neg or pos. in direct contact with coated emulsion.

: Next expose the piece with a high UV light source, like sun light,

: some SUN lamps are high UV (not heat lamps).

: Exposure time guide lines should come with the resist.

: Next the pi

:

: There are some photo-etch. products available at radio shack, and I think

: they,

: are also available, at some jewelry supplys, also you can call Kodak,

: at 1-800-242-2424, they will direct you to the correct dept., just tell

: then

: what you want to accomplish and the may be able to help you.

: I would try Radio Shack first and see if they carry a liquid photo-etch

: resist,

: and instructions to get you started.

: The basic process is, first create a piece of artwork, without grays, then

: you have

: to produce a litho negative or positive, (lith negs are solid black with

: clear lines,

: lith positives are made from the negatives and have totally clear

: background

: and

: solid black lines. (if you want tone you have to use a half tone screen)

: Next the copper or brass or alum, or glass, or what ever, is scrubbed very

: very

: clean, and then dried, very dry.

: Next the piece is then coated, (very even coating helps) and dried.

: Keep the piece in the dark until you are ready to expose.

: Next place the neg. or pos. in direct contact with coated emulsion.

: Next expose the piece with a high UV light source, like sun light,

: or some SUN lamps are high UV (not heat lamps).

: Exposure time guide lines should come with the resist.

: Next the piece is developed, washed and dried.

: Next the piece is placed in the enchant and agitated till its finished.

: Next wash, Chemically neutralize the piece, then enjoy.

: If you have any other ?, please feel free to E-mail me..

: I have not done this process for quite a while, and there may be major

: changes in the process that I am not aware of, there may be a

: cotinuious tone product out now the the art community can use easier

: then the commerical stuff..

: Mike Wolfe

:

: Would a negative that is printed on a laser printer work? I have run out

: film, (acetate) positives and negatives on my laser printer. The black

: areas are not quite as solid as film from a service bureau. But if you

: could scan artwork into the computer, print laser printer film negs, it'd

: be real handy.

: David

:

: David:

: I use laser generated art printed on laserable transparency stock all of

: the time to create rubbermold masters from aluminum backed light sensitive

: polymers. Your right, it is not always as solid as other processes, but it

: has worked for me.

: Kenneth Gastineau

: Thanks for responding so quickly!

: I am going to be using fine silver and the dimensions will be approx.

: 2x1 (inches)

: Shawn

:

: In the Rio Grande catalog book section, you will find the book "Metals

: Technic" which is a collection of articles by various metalsmiths on

: different metalsmithing processes and techniques. One of the articles is by

: Mary Ann Scherr on "The Instant Etch Process" for metal which uses the "Rio

: Master Etch Press System" (available through Rio Grande for $95.95). I know

: it looks gimmicky, or like some kind of craft kit you got as a kid, but

: I've heard it works well.

: Also Metalsmith magazine had an lengthy article back in the early 80's

: about photoetching.

: Kim

: >Shawn, you might try contacting Eleanore Mody. Cynthia thinks she is at

: >University of California at Long Beach. If you cannot find her, write and

: >we will see if we can get her current number, address or whatever. Also,

: >try a big art store as they usually have photo etching stuff.

: It's Eleanor MOTY. I think she is an Arizona, but am not sure. The folks at

: the U-W Madison art dept should know where she is at right now (she's on an

: extended leave right now). 608-262-1660 is art dept phone, I believe. Good

: luck.

: ~~~~~~~~~~~

: Valerie Weihman

: i dont know how detailed you want to etch your metal, but my quest for

: in house/lowcost methodes led me to this for both intaglio, almost

: newspaper quality images, and just a couple of days ago, 3d bronze form.

: clean your metal with a good degreaser, i generally use polished metal

: for contrast with the etched surface.

: generate a dark laser print, this is adjustable on most laser printers,

: and print on good quality laser paper (ive had best luck with premium

: hammerhill). adjust to a rather coarse dpi output if you require a deep

: ecth, 60 dpi, adjustable through many image manipulation software

: packages (i use photoshop). 300 dpi is a nice resolution for

: printmaking..

: heat your metal evenly on a hot plate to about 325 f, i used a toaster

: oven for the 3d object, and lay the image face down on the object. wear

: good gloves (i use kevlar) and rub the page back with a knotted, smooth

: cotton cloth, transferring the image from the paper to the metal (a

: residual image will remain on the page).

: this forms your resist on the metal. i will use a negative image for

: printmaking, and generally use the positive for direct metal surface

: work, this depends on the color value differences of the etch/non etch

: surface.

: put it in your etch solution and calibrate for the length of etch. most

: solutions i use take from 30 to 75 minutes

: ive used:

: zinc, copper, bronze- face up in nitric acid

: copper, brass, bronze- face down (suspended by rubber suction cups) in

: ferric chloride a preferable etch medium, unbeleivable patinas

: aluminum- lye (drano)

: the nitric and ferric may be purchased at a printmaking supply. try to

: find someone local, shipping hazardes material is expensive, and please

: follow safety...and dispose...

: the solvent for the resist is acetone, and a toothbrush is the

: applicator.

: havent tried this with fused metal, thought it would be interesting.

: gabriel

: Neat-O!! :) Bring on CorelDraw!

: Dave

:

: think nitric acid would work, only have done rudimentry stuff in silver.

: gabriel

:

: Wow Gabriel,

: I knew that laser prints could be used as hot melt glue, but acid resist.

: the Jewel in the Crown

: Thanks

: Gene

: Not enough D-max,

: but maybe two or three layers of the same image would work.

: Mike wolfe

: oh Gene, i forgot. a xerox was my first successful attempt at this.

: print dark. love the control of the laser. good dot control.

: someone mention coreldraw? just got 7, amazing upgrade from 5. is

: dreamcadd 3d a substitute for turbocad 3d for technical drawings?

: generally have to go through some gyrations to import turbocad drawings

: (do them as .WMF) into corel, hoping dreamcad would be a good

: substitute- though hate to learn a fourth cad program.

: p.s. dont leave the paper on the metal for to long, seems to leach back

: into the paper, specialy if the metal cools with the paper still on. if

: you get a poor transfer, clean it off with acetone and try again.

: gabriel

:

: I thought someone might be interested in Gabe's technique. He gave me a

: hollowform bob that he made which has an etched image of an antique map

: that

: he wrapped around and transferred the image onto. Then it was etched and

: it

: really works on this brass or bronze shape. I was surprised and impressed.

: When he explained that he finally had determined the approximate

: temperature

: of the metal, he then put the dimensional shape into an old toaster oven to

: heat it, it sounded like it might have been awkward to then hold the laser

: printed paper over the shape and transfer the image while the piece was

: still

: warm. I then wondered if maybe a tacking iron that is used for mounting

: photographs might work instead, also maybe a regular iron might too, for

: flat

: work.

: It's an interesting technique and maybe there are some other ways to keep

: the

: heat on the work while transferring an image on a shaped piece. Flat work

: on

: a sheet of heavy aluminum or copper would work okay on top of a hot plate

: maybe, so the heat would be evenly transferred.

: The one thing that I want to try is deep etching aluminum using lye

: (drano).

: I think you can achieve a deep intaglio type of etch this way. I can see

: where this would also have interesting applications for surface

: enhancement.

: Gabe also told me that some folks use their photo copiers with a heavy

: load

: of toner, which may be similar to the laser toner, and this works as well

: as

: a resist.

: Chris Ray

:

: > I think you can achieve a deep intaglio type of etch this way

: yes you can, but if you want to use it as an etching plate, aquatint it

: as usual, either with a thin coat of cheap, flat black enamel paint

: (cheaper the better- pep boys brand, channel home center had a good

: product for this, not krylon) or more traditional methodes...

: gabriel

:

: A note here, You can buy acid cartridges for face masks, DO IT if you are

: going to use this stuff or it will burn your lungs out. And the mask is not

: an excuse for poor ventalation, remember all those expensive tools around

: you are rotting on the vine from the stuff just like you would be without

: the mask.

: Gene

:

: Eleanor Moty is a very good source for information concerning phot-etching

: and a very nice person. She is located at 1441 North Day Road, Tucson, AZ,

: 85715-5633. Her work relied very much on that process but she became quite

: ill due to those very processes and has either entirely or mostly cut it

: out of her working vocabulary. I messed with it some several years ago and

: found the fumes overwhelming, so much so that I gave it up without a second

: thought. If you get involved with it, approach it with extreme caution and

: do it in a WELL VENTILATED place. Hope this helps.

: Keith

:

: I have used the xerox method to photo etch....I have found

: that if you have access to an old, old, old machine where

: you pour the toner from a bottle yourself rather than

: the cartridge loading type it is easier to get that really

: heavy toner that works best. Of course, with these machines

: the image tends to be less perfect.

: Another methods of transfering the toner without the

: heat. Buy a "blending" clear marker at any art supply store.

: Place your xerox(toner side down) on your clean metal, having already put

: resist of some kind on the back and edges of the piece. Holding the xerox

: firmly in place use the blender marker

: heavily on the xerox from the back side...it soaks through the

: paper and releases the toner which deposits on the metal.

: Depending on your patience and practice this can work

: fairly well.

: As far as the Mary Ann Scherr set up sold through Rio, She

: did a demo of it I saw some years ago (also got to be in a

: show with her at the same time, had to mention it, lovely

: woman) The machine is a kind of childs toy silkscreening

: kit for small items, cards, etc. Worked well and came

: with detailed instructions...I think it cost quite a bit more

: however than a toaster oven or a blender marker, Karen

:

: I was in a class at Arrowmont a few years ago. Mary Ann Scheer was the

: instructor. She was very interested in the safty aspects of the process.

: she

: was using a dental resist for safty reasons. It could be removed from the

: silkscreans with Goop. The Master Etch system gave very good prints with

: a lot of detail. The actual etching was done as usual. the book is

: excellent.

: Marilyn Smith

:

: > use the blender marker heavily on the xerox from the back side...it

: soaks

: > through the paper and releases the toner which deposits on the metal.

: > Depending on your patience and practice this can work fairly well.

: I've done a similar thing with a product called Tech 2000 (or something

: close to that.) It's a sheet very much like an overhead projection slide

: with a blue coating on one side. You run it through a laser printer/photo

: copier so that the toner gets fused to the side with the blue coating.

: Then you simply use an iron to transfer your toner/blue coating mixture to

: some surface where it acts as a resist. It's the easiest and most

: reliable way I've found of etching printed circuit boards. I get very

: good detail, and it only costs $1 a sheet. No nasty chemicals, etc.

: At first I thought the stuff was just hype, and that they were

: selling transparencies. (I'd tried just ironing off the toner from a

: regular transparency to use as a resist with pretty pour results.) I

: don't know what that blue coating is, but it definitely makes a

: difference. I think I bought my supply through All Electronics. I can

: double check, and scrounge up more info if anyone is interested.

: From the land of unsolicited testimonials,

: -Kurt

:

: If you don't mind Kurt it might be useful to know about. After receiving

: Gabe's bronze etched bob, I've been thinking about playing around with this

: and a couple of other things as well.

:

: I cut out some sheet metal parts yesterday, trying out the use of nitrogen

: for my plasma cutter (it sucks the stuff right out of the cylinder, so back

: to moist air when I'm through with this cylinder). Anyway I thought I

: might

: try some intaglio pieces on American Etching paper using these shapes and

: pressing on the hydraulic press. Then I thought about trying to press

: shapes

: into annealed roofing copper, using perhaps a bed of pewter as the backing

: (I

: don't have any lead around). Also thought about Lee Marshall's urethane

: boxes for this as well, but will try it on whatever is on hand first.

: Etching some designs into the cutout shapes before pressing might be

: interesting if a transfer can be made deep enough into the formed copper.

: I

: don't know if that will work.

: I'm in a funky experimental mood this week, so aside from the gas forge &

: furnace that Gabriel and I are building, I thought I might try some fun

: stuff

: as well. If there is anything interesting that comes of it, I'll post the

: info later. This little thing is something that jewelers can make use of

: as

: well as others, since some of you have Lee's press on hand already.

: The best thing for this operation is that explosive technique that the

: woman

: artist that was mentioned here before, is doing. I don't have any bombs

: here

: in the studio, so I guess the old fashioned way will have to do. The more

: I

: think about it the more I think that this is a heavy stamping operation

: rather than pressing. What the hell.

: Chris Ray

: Ok. I looked up the info on photo etching material. It's called

: Press-N-Peel

: UltraBlue 1000 by Technicks Inc. You can get a pack of five 8.5x11"

: sheets for $11.95 from All Electronics. Catalog Number TEK-5

: All Electronics Corp.

: P.O. Box 567

: Van Nuys, CA 91408-0567

: Order Line: 1-800-826-5432

: Fax: 818-781-2653

: Phew. I guess I was off a little about the price (well $2 a sheet as

: opposed to $1 a sheet.) I was also off a little about the name. Can

: anyone tell I haven't ordered any of this stuff in two years? For circuit

: boards it's well worth the price since I can fit a lot of PC layouts on a

: single 8.5x11" sheet. I usually only need one or two small boards, but I

: tile the page with them. That way I have lots of extras in case I need an

: extra whatsit later on.

: -Kurt

: I've been sitting back enjoying this thread. The metal backed polymer

: sheets are used by printers engravers, there are different sorts I use

: what is described as letterpress over here which cuts to about 1mm, I've

: also used material designed for hot foil printing which is deeper at

: about 1.5mm. I've had plates made which were on a film backing so they

: could be stuck to a curved surface. I use a UV box designed for cicuit

: boards these are much cheaper than the sort used by printers/engravers,

: apart from a slight modification to the exposure time they seem more

: than adequate. After exposure the unexposed areas brush out in hot water

: (make sure you get this sort of plate).

: I also use direct output from my laser printer onto film, black overhead

: projector pens are suitable for creating artwork on film or for

: modifying or touching up less dense stuff (e.g. my old bubble jet),

: laser copies and ordinary copies onto film can work and if particularly

: poor quality can add an interesting grainy effect to the raised areas.

: You can also get UV sensitive films for making negatives useful when you

: require large areas to be blacked off, again these are used by printers.

: These print block techniques are usually just a preliminary stage in

: creating a master straight engravings usually look just like a print

: block and some work like doming or texturing is required. A technique I

: often use to avoid the rather too clean on off effect of print block is

: to engrave a negative version then press epoxy putty into it, talc the

: epoxy first so it doesn't stick then work on the putty to produce a much

: more hand crafted version.

: As for casting pewter into rubber moulds made from these engravings,

: vulcanised rubbers are best for heat resistance, silicone are ok if you

: haven't the equipment (but its very easy to vulcanise in an oven). Most

: pewter compositions are intended for machine casting but those which

: contain bismuth are usually best for hand casting into rubber.

:

: For direct engraving of pewter metal I have been using acrylic paint as

: a resist. Over head projector pens also work as I suspect would most

: water proof inks, I never etch too deeply using these techniques.

: I've been following the Artist training thread with interest as I have

: been considering getting some education, but maybe I'll just carrying on

: as I am and get my education through Artmetal. Thanks to everyone who

: contributes to this group, I'm even starting to read some of the yak!

: --

: Geoff Treseder

: Cornwall U.K.

:

: This sounds like it works just like the stuff I used long ago to make

: silkscreens for t-shirts. It's a UV setting liquid. I wonder if you could

: brush this stuff right onto a metal, then do your exposure? I used to use

: xerox copies on acetate as my "film", and just use bright sunlight as the

: UV.

: Then you just wash off the unexposed parts.

: Hey, here's an idea: just weld near the object you want exposed for a very

: short time, and that would give it plenty of UV light in a hurry!

: This stuff came in small amounts that I got at the local art supply, and it

: was a two-part mixture. You mix them together to form this nasty greenish

: color, then brush it on the silkscreen and allow to dry in a dark place.

: Then

: just expose it with the "film" lying on the screen. The uneposed parts

: washed

: out really easily, and I think you could clean the screen with chlorox to

: remove the set-up stuff if you wanted to do a different image on the same

: screen.

: I might give this a try...

: -Heath

: Many jewelry supply houses are selling a system called Model Master which

: is produced by Model Master in Atlanta, Georgia. They sell a small exposure

: box and 7" square polymer materials of various qualities, thicknesses, and

: backings. The ones I use are the green polymer (good detail) and aluminum

: backed. These are for making rubber molds from the masters produced. They

: are also use for making tracing masters for pantographing engraving

: machines for metal mold and die engraving.

: The one I have had the best luck with for my work has been the green .030"

: polymer on .030" aluminum backing. They make the same product with a .015"

: backing and either .015" or .030" polymer. The problem I have with the

: .015" backing is incomplete filling of the rubber mold with such thin

: sections. When ordering it is difficult as most suppliers list only the

: thickness of the polymer and not the thickness of the metal. I have a call

: into Model Master and will try to get more complete information for

: ordering and suppliers. Swest in Atlanta can get anything Model Master

: produces. I think the going rate is $22.00 or so a sheet. (7"X7")

: It is kind of tricky stuff to get usable results from, but is well worth

: the effort to learn as it is a quick method for making models for which

: this medium is applicable. The limitations being very fine detail, however

: I am using the thicker polymers, the thinner polymers will reproduce finer

: detail. However, they all produce greater detail than I ever thought

: possible from this type of media. Originally I called a supplier and

: requested a sample of etched polymer. I made a vulcanized rubbermold of the

: master they sent me and was impressed with the injected wax pattern and

: finally the cast piece.

: As with any material it requires patience and some experimentation. I use a

: toothbrush and cold water and stop every few minutes and dry the polymer

: with a hair dryer. This keeps it from becoming too mushy and spoiling the

: master. Once I have gotten most of the polymer brushed away I dry it again

: (hair dryer) and put it in the ultrasonic cleaner (clean cold water only)

: for just a few seconds. This tends to clean out the little crevices and

: corners and removes most of the polymer residues that could mix with the

: rubber and weaken it.

: I then dry it thoroughly (hair dryer) and expose it to a strong UV light

: for about 5 minutes to super cure the remaining polymer. I next cut out the

: piece with a jewelers saw and grind or file the edges. Normally I include a

: tab in the original negative so I have a place to burn a sprue into without

: messing with the cavity of the piece itself.

: Model Master has a special mold and injection frame for which they claim

: helps save rubber ( thus $$$) and also helps to inject thin flat pieces.

: Has anyone used this gizmo? I can't quite tell from the catalog picture how

: it works. I'll try to find out more about it. It is about $25.00.

: All of my casting experience has been with lost wax. So far my favorite wax

: for injection has been Kerr's Magnaject. I have never cast pewter directly

: into rubber, however I am interested in learning to do so. Perhaps you can

: fill us all in on some of your techniques and what is and isn't possible.

: In the future I plan to have some flat jewelry masters etched by a

: commercial etcher in magnesium. I have a feeling these will provide even

: more detailed masters and less possibility of mold rubber contamination.

: Also there are more thicknesses available. Probably about the same cost per

: square inch for thin stuff. Of course there is the turn around time and

: therefore the need for in house systems such as the polymers.

: I think Jeffrey Everett is subscribed to this list. He has experience with

: these polymers and other processes. He has given me very solid advice in

: the past. Jeffrey are you out there?

: David, I do not know where you live. If you need help finding a supplier

: for these polymers or other etchers or suppliers let me know, I will see

: what I can do.

: I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving day today.

: Regards

: Kenneth Gastineau

: >>Then you simply use an iron to transfer your toner/blue coating mixture

: to

: (snip)

: >> -Kurt

: This one rang a bell. I read somewhere that you can do the same with

: silicone release paper, the stuff that computer labels come mounted

: on. Cannot remember where I saw it mentioned though, and hey, I

: have not tried it yet, so don't blame me if you have to go and grovel

: to the copier guardian about gumming up the works.

: Kevin Eva, Northern England, UK

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