Re: METAL PHOTO ETCHING

Posted by David Ferber on February 17, 1999 at 21:23:18:

In Reply to: METAL PHOTO ETCHING posted by Roberto on August 24, 1997 at 12:44:33:

: To:

: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu

:Hello,

My name is Dave, and I'm looking to buy Industrial photo-etch

machines.Do they exist..Please help if you can, Thank You very

much.

Dave

:

: There are some photo-etch. products available at radio shack, and I think

: they,

: are also available, some jewlery supply, also you can call Kodak,

: at 1-800-242-2424, they will direct you to the correct dept., just tell

: then

: what you want to acomplish and the may be able to help you.

: I would try Radio Shack first and see if they carry a liquid photo-etch

: resist,

: and instructions to get you started.

: The basic process is, first create a piece of artwork, without gerys, then

: you have

: to produce a litho negative or positive, (lith negs are solid black with

: clear lines,

: lith positives are made from the negatives and have totally clear

: background

: and

: solid black lines.

: Next the copper or brass or alum, or glass, or what ever, is scrubbed very

: very

: clean, and then dryed, very dry.

: Next the piece is then coated, (very even coating helps) and dryed.

: Keep the piece in the dark untill you are ready to expose.

: Next place the neg or pos. in direct contact with coated emulsion.

: Next expose the piece with a high UV light source, like sun light,

: some SUN lamps are high UV (not heat lamps).

: Exposure time guide lines should come with the resist.

: Next the pi

:

: There are some photo-etch. products available at radio shack, and I think

: they,

: are also available, at some jewelry supplys, also you can call Kodak,

: at 1-800-242-2424, they will direct you to the correct dept., just tell

: then

: what you want to accomplish and the may be able to help you.

: I would try Radio Shack first and see if they carry a liquid photo-etch

: resist,

: and instructions to get you started.

: The basic process is, first create a piece of artwork, without grays, then

: you have

: to produce a litho negative or positive, (lith negs are solid black with

: clear lines,

: lith positives are made from the negatives and have totally clear

: background

: and

: solid black lines. (if you want tone you have to use a half tone screen)

: Next the copper or brass or alum, or glass, or what ever, is scrubbed very

: very

: clean, and then dried, very dry.

: Next the piece is then coated, (very even coating helps) and dried.

: Keep the piece in the dark until you are ready to expose.

: Next place the neg. or pos. in direct contact with coated emulsion.

: Next expose the piece with a high UV light source, like sun light,

: or some SUN lamps are high UV (not heat lamps).

: Exposure time guide lines should come with the resist.

: Next the piece is developed, washed and dried.

: Next the piece is placed in the enchant and agitated till its finished.

: Next wash, Chemically neutralize the piece, then enjoy.

: If you have any other ?, please feel free to E-mail me..

: I have not done this process for quite a while, and there may be major

: changes in the process that I am not aware of, there may be a

: cotinuious tone product out now the the art community can use easier

: then the commerical stuff..

: Mike Wolfe

:

: Would a negative that is printed on a laser printer work? I have run out

: film, (acetate) positives and negatives on my laser printer. The black

: areas are not quite as solid as film from a service bureau. But if you

: could scan artwork into the computer, print laser printer film negs, it'd

: be real handy.

: David

:

: David:

: I use laser generated art printed on laserable transparency stock all of

: the time to create rubbermold masters from aluminum backed light sensitive

: polymers. Your right, it is not always as solid as other processes, but it

: has worked for me.

: Kenneth Gastineau

: Thanks for responding so quickly!

: I am going to be using fine silver and the dimensions will be approx.

: 2x1 (inches)

: Shawn

:

: In the Rio Grande catalog book section, you will find the book "Metals

: Technic" which is a collection of articles by various metalsmiths on

: different metalsmithing processes and techniques. One of the articles is by

: Mary Ann Scherr on "The Instant Etch Process" for metal which uses the "Rio

: Master Etch Press System" (available through Rio Grande for $95.95). I know

: it looks gimmicky, or like some kind of craft kit you got as a kid, but

: I've heard it works well.

: Also Metalsmith magazine had an lengthy article back in the early 80's

: about photoetching.

: Kim

: >Shawn, you might try contacting Eleanore Mody. Cynthia thinks she is at

: >University of California at Long Beach. If you cannot find her, write and

: >we will see if we can get her current number, address or whatever. Also,

: >try a big art store as they usually have photo etching stuff.

: It's Eleanor MOTY. I think she is an Arizona, but am not sure. The folks at

: the U-W Madison art dept should know where she is at right now (she's on an

: extended leave right now). 608-262-1660 is art dept phone, I believe. Good

: luck.

: ~~~~~~~~~~~

: Valerie Weihman

: i dont know how detailed you want to etch your metal, but my quest for

: in house/lowcost methodes led me to this for both intaglio, almost

: newspaper quality images, and just a couple of days ago, 3d bronze form.

: clean your metal with a good degreaser, i generally use polished metal

: for contrast with the etched surface.

: generate a dark laser print, this is adjustable on most laser printers,

: and print on good quality laser paper (ive had best luck with premium

: hammerhill). adjust to a rather coarse dpi output if you require a deep

: ecth, 60 dpi, adjustable through many image manipulation software

: packages (i use photoshop). 300 dpi is a nice resolution for

: printmaking..

: heat your metal evenly on a hot plate to about 325 f, i used a toaster

: oven for the 3d object, and lay the image face down on the object. wear

: good gloves (i use kevlar) and rub the page back with a knotted, smooth

: cotton cloth, transferring the image from the paper to the metal (a

: residual image will remain on the page).

: this forms your resist on the metal. i will use a negative image for

: printmaking, and generally use the positive for direct metal surface

: work, this depends on the color value differences of the etch/non etch

: surface.

: put it in your etch solution and calibrate for the length of etch. most

: solutions i use take from 30 to 75 minutes

: ive used:

: zinc, copper, bronze- face up in nitric acid

: copper, brass, bronze- face down (suspended by rubber suction cups) in

: ferric chloride a preferable etch medium, unbeleivable patinas

: aluminum- lye (drano)

: the nitric and ferric may be purchased at a printmaking supply. try to

: find someone local, shipping hazardes material is expensive, and please

: follow safety...and dispose...

: the solvent for the resist is acetone, and a toothbrush is the

: applicator.

: havent tried this with fused metal, thought it would be interesting.

: gabriel

: Neat-O!! :) Bring on CorelDraw!

: Dave

:

: think nitric acid would work, only have done rudimentry stuff in silver.

: gabriel

:

: Wow Gabriel,

: I knew that laser prints could be used as hot melt glue, but acid resist.

: the Jewel in the Crown

: Thanks

: Gene

: Not enough D-max,

: but maybe two or three layers of the same image would work.

: Mike wolfe

: oh Gene, i forgot. a xerox was my first successful attempt at this.

: print dark. love the control of the laser. good dot control.

: someone mention coreldraw? just got 7, amazing upgrade from 5. is

: dreamcadd 3d a substitute for turbocad 3d for technical drawings?

: generally have to go through some gyrations to import turbocad drawings

: (do them as .WMF) into corel, hoping dreamcad would be a good

: substitute- though hate to learn a fourth cad program.

: p.s. dont leave the paper on the metal for to long, seems to leach back

: into the paper, specialy if the metal cools with the paper still on. if

: you get a poor transfer, clean it off with acetone and try again.

: gabriel

:

: I thought someone might be interested in Gabe's technique. He gave me a

: hollowform bob that he made which has an etched image of an antique map

: that

: he wrapped around and transferred the image onto. Then it was etched and

: it

: really works on this brass or bronze shape. I was surprised and impressed.

: When he explained that he finally had determined the approximate

: temperature

: of the metal, he then put the dimensional shape into an old toaster oven to

: heat it, it sounded like it might have been awkward to then hold the laser

: printed paper over the shape and transfer the image while the piece was

: still

: warm. I then wondered if maybe a tacking iron that is used for mounting

: photographs might work instead, also maybe a regular iron might too, for

: flat

: work.

: It's an interesting technique and maybe there are some other ways to keep

: the

: heat on the work while transferring an image on a shaped piece. Flat work

: on

: a sheet of heavy aluminum or copper would work okay on top of a hot plate

: maybe, so the heat would be evenly transferred.

: The one thing that I want to try is deep etching aluminum using lye

: (drano).

: I think you can achieve a deep intaglio type of etch this way. I can see

: where this would also have interesting applications for surface

: enhancement.

: Gabe also told me that some folks use their photo copiers with a heavy

: load

: of toner, which may be similar to the laser toner, and this works as well

: as

: a resist.

: Chris Ray

:

: > I think you can achieve a deep intaglio type of etch this way

: yes you can, but if you want to use it as an etching plate, aquatint it

: as usual, either with a thin coat of cheap, flat black enamel paint

: (cheaper the better- pep boys brand, channel home center had a good

: product for this, not krylon) or more traditional methodes...

: gabriel

:

: A note here, You can buy acid cartridges for face masks, DO IT if you are

: going to use this stuff or it will burn your lungs out. And the mask is not

: an excuse for poor ventalation, remember all those expensive tools around

: you are rotting on the vine from the stuff just like you would be without

: the mask.

: Gene

:

: Eleanor Moty is a very good source for information concerning phot-etching

: and a very nice person. She is located at 1441 North Day Road, Tucson, AZ,

: 85715-5633. Her work relied very much on that process but she became quite

: ill due to those very processes and has either entirely or mostly cut it

: out of her working vocabulary. I messed with it some several years ago and

: found the fumes overwhelming, so much so that I gave it up without a second

: thought. If you get involved with it, approach it with extreme caution and

: do it in a WELL VENTILATED place. Hope this helps.

: Keith

:

: I have used the xerox method to photo etch....I have found

: that if you have access to an old, old, old machine where

: you pour the toner from a bottle yourself rather than

: the cartridge loading type it is easier to get that really

: heavy toner that works best. Of course, with these machines

: the image tends to be less perfect.

: Another methods of transfering the toner without the

: heat. Buy a "blending" clear marker at any art supply store.

: Place your xerox(toner side down) on your clean metal, having already put

: resist of some kind on the back and edges of the piece. Holding the xerox

: firmly in place use the blender marker

: heavily on the xerox from the back side...it soaks through the

: paper and releases the toner which deposits on the metal.

: Depending on your patience and practice this can work

: fairly well.

: As far as the Mary Ann Scherr set up sold through Rio, She

: did a demo of it I saw some years ago (also got to be in a

: show with her at the same time, had to mention it, lovely

: woman) The machine is a kind of childs toy silkscreening

: kit for small items, cards, etc. Worked well and came

: with detailed instructions...I think it cost quite a bit more

: however than a toaster oven or a blender marker, Karen

:

: I was in a class at Arrowmont a few years ago. Mary Ann Scheer was the

: instructor. She was very interested in the safty aspects of the process.

: she

: was using a dental resist for safty reasons. It could be removed from the

: silkscreans with Goop. The Master Etch system gave very good prints with

: a lot of detail. The actual etching was done as usual. the book is

: excellent.

: Marilyn Smith

:

: > use the blender marker heavily on the xerox from the back side...it

: soaks

: > through the paper and releases the toner which deposits on the metal.

: > Depending on your patience and practice this can work fairly well.

: I've done a similar thing with a product called Tech 2000 (or something

: close to that.) It's a sheet very much like an overhead projection slide

: with a blue coating on one side. You run it through a laser printer/photo

: copier so that the toner gets fused to the side with the blue coating.

: Then you simply use an iron to transfer your toner/blue coating mixture to

: some surface where it acts as a resist. It's the easiest and most

: reliable way I've found of etching printed circuit boards. I get very

: good detail, and it only costs $1 a sheet. No nasty chemicals, etc.

: At first I thought the stuff was just hype, and that they were

: selling transparencies. (I'd tried just ironing off the toner from a

: regular transparency to use as a resist with pretty pour results.) I

: don't know what that blue coating is, but it definitely makes a

: difference. I think I bought my supply through All Electronics. I can

: double check, and scrounge up more info if anyone is interested.

: From the land of unsolicited testimonials,

: -Kurt

:

: If you don't mind Kurt it might be useful to know about. After receiving

: Gabe's bronze etched bob, I've been thinking about playing around with this

: and a couple of other things as well.

:

: I cut out some sheet metal parts yesterday, trying out the use of nitrogen

: for my plasma cutter (it sucks the stuff right out of the cylinder, so back

: to moist air when I'm through with this cylinder). Anyway I thought I

: might

: try some intaglio pieces on American Etching paper using these shapes and

: pressing on the hydraulic press. Then I thought about trying to press

: shapes

: into annealed roofing copper, using perhaps a bed of pewter as the backing

: (I

: don't have any lead around). Also thought about Lee Marshall's urethane

: boxes for this as well, but will try it on whatever is on hand first.

: Etching some designs into the cutout shapes before pressing might be

: interesting if a transfer can be made deep enough into the formed copper.

: I

: don't know if that will work.

: I'm in a funky experimental mood this week, so aside from the gas forge &

: furnace that Gabriel and I are building, I thought I might try some fun

: stuff

: as well. If there is anything interesting that comes of it, I'll post the

: info later. This little thing is something that jewelers can make use of

: as

: well as others, since some of you have Lee's press on hand already.

: The best thing for this operation is that explosive technique that the

: woman

: artist that was mentioned here before, is doing. I don't have any bombs

: here

: in the studio, so I guess the old fashioned way will have to do. The more

: I

: think about it the more I think that this is a heavy stamping operation

: rather than pressing. What the hell.

: Chris Ray

: Ok. I looked up the info on photo etching material. It's called

: Press-N-Peel

: UltraBlue 1000 by Technicks Inc. You can get a pack of five 8.5x11"

: sheets for $11.95 from All Electronics. Catalog Number TEK-5

: All Electronics Corp.

: P.O. Box 567

: Van Nuys, CA 91408-0567

: Order Line: 1-800-826-5432

: Fax: 818-781-2653

: Phew. I guess I was off a little about the price (well $2 a sheet as

: opposed to $1 a sheet.) I was also off a little about the name. Can

: anyone tell I haven't ordered any of this stuff in two years? For circuit

: boards it's well worth the price since I can fit a lot of PC layouts on a

: single 8.5x11" sheet. I usually only need one or two small boards, but I

: tile the page with them. That way I have lots of extras in case I need an

: extra whatsit later on.

: -Kurt

: I've been sitting back enjoying this thread. The metal backed polymer

: sheets are used by printers engravers, there are different sorts I use

: what is described as letterpress over here which cuts to about 1mm, I've

: also used material designed for hot foil printing which is deeper at

: about 1.5mm. I've had plates made which were on a film backing so they

: could be stuck to a curved surface. I use a UV box designed for cicuit

: boards these are much cheaper than the sort used by printers/engravers,

: apart from a slight modification to the exposure time they seem more

: than adequate. After exposure the unexposed areas brush out in hot water

: (make sure you get this sort of plate).

: I also use direct output from my laser printer onto film, black overhead

: projector pens are suitable for creating artwork on film or for

: modifying or touching up less dense stuff (e.g. my old bubble jet),

: laser copies and ordinary copies onto film can work and if particularly

: poor quality can add an interesting grainy effect to the raised areas.

: You can also get UV sensitive films for making negatives useful when you

: require large areas to be blacked off, again these are used by printers.

: These print block techniques are usually just a preliminary stage in

: creating a master straight engravings usually look just like a print

: block and some work like doming or texturing is required. A technique I

: often use to avoid the rather too clean on off effect of print block is

: to engrave a negative version then press epoxy putty into it, talc the

: epoxy first so it doesn't stick then work on the putty to produce a much

: more hand crafted version.

: As for casting pewter into rubber moulds made from these engravings,

: vulcanised rubbers are best for heat resistance, silicone are ok if you

: haven't the equipment (but its very easy to vulcanise in an oven). Most

: pewter compositions are intended for machine casting but those which

: contain bismuth are usually best for hand casting into rubber.

:

: For direct engraving of pewter metal I have been using acrylic paint as

: a resist. Over head projector pens also work as I suspect would most

: water proof inks, I never etch too deeply using these techniques.

: I've been following the Artist training thread with interest as I have

: been considering getting some education, but maybe I'll just carrying on

: as I am and get my education through Artmetal. Thanks to everyone who

: contributes to this group, I'm even starting to read some of the yak!

: --

: Geoff Treseder

: Cornwall U.K.

:

: This sounds like it works just like the stuff I used long ago to make

: silkscreens for t-shirts. It's a UV setting liquid. I wonder if you could

: brush this stuff right onto a metal, then do your exposure? I used to use

: xerox copies on acetate as my "film", and just use bright sunlight as the

: UV.

: Then you just wash off the unexposed parts.

: Hey, here's an idea: just weld near the object you want exposed for a very

: short time, and that would give it plenty of UV light in a hurry!

: This stuff came in small amounts that I got at the local art supply, and it

: was a two-part mixture. You mix them together to form this nasty greenish

: color, then brush it on the silkscreen and allow to dry in a dark place.

: Then

: just expose it with the "film" lying on the screen. The uneposed parts

: washed

: out really easily, and I think you could clean the screen with chlorox to

: remove the set-up stuff if you wanted to do a different image on the same

: screen.

: I might give this a try...

: -Heath

: Many jewelry supply houses are selling a system called Model Master which

: is produced by Model Master in Atlanta, Georgia. They sell a small exposure

: box and 7" square polymer materials of various qualities, thicknesses, and

: backings. The ones I use are the green polymer (good detail) and aluminum

: backed. These are for making rubber molds from the masters produced. They

: are also use for making tracing masters for pantographing engraving

: machines for metal mold and die engraving.

: The one I have had the best luck with for my work has been the green .030"

: polymer on .030" aluminum backing. They make the same product with a .015"

: backing and either .015" or .030" polymer. The problem I have with the

: .015" backing is incomplete filling of the rubber mold with such thin

: sections. When ordering it is difficult as most suppliers list only the

: thickness of the polymer and not the thickness of the metal. I have a call

: into Model Master and will try to get more complete information for

: ordering and suppliers. Swest in Atlanta can get anything Model Master

: produces. I think the going rate is $22.00 or so a sheet. (7"X7")

: It is kind of tricky stuff to get usable results from, but is well worth

: the effort to learn as it is a quick method for making models for which

: this medium is applicable. The limitations being very fine detail, however

: I am using the thicker polymers, the thinner polymers will reproduce finer

: detail. However, they all produce greater detail than I ever thought

: possible from this type of media. Originally I called a supplier and

: requested a sample of etched polymer. I made a vulcanized rubbermold of the

: master they sent me and was impressed with the injected wax pattern and

: finally the cast piece.

: As with any material it requires patience and some experimentation. I use a

: toothbrush and cold water and stop every few minutes and dry the polymer

: with a hair dryer. This keeps it from becoming too mushy and spoiling the

: master. Once I have gotten most of the polymer brushed away I dry it again

: (hair dryer) and put it in the ultrasonic cleaner (clean cold water only)

: for just a few seconds. This tends to clean out the little crevices and

: corners and removes most of the polymer residues that could mix with the

: rubber and weaken it.

: I then dry it thoroughly (hair dryer) and expose it to a strong UV light

: for about 5 minutes to super cure the remaining polymer. I next cut out the

: piece with a jewelers saw and grind or file the edges. Normally I include a

: tab in the original negative so I have a place to burn a sprue into without

: messing with the cavity of the piece itself.

: Model Master has a special mold and injection frame for which they claim

: helps save rubber ( thus $$$) and also helps to inject thin flat pieces.

: Has anyone used this gizmo? I can't quite tell from the catalog picture how

: it works. I'll try to find out more about it. It is about $25.00.

: All of my casting experience has been with lost wax. So far my favorite wax

: for injection has been Kerr's Magnaject. I have never cast pewter directly

: into rubber, however I am interested in learning to do so. Perhaps you can

: fill us all in on some of your techniques and what is and isn't possible.

: In the future I plan to have some flat jewelry masters etched by a

: commercial etcher in magnesium. I have a feeling these will provide even

: more detailed masters and less possibility of mold rubber contamination.

: Also there are more thicknesses available. Probably about the same cost per

: square inch for thin stuff. Of course there is the turn around time and

: therefore the need for in house systems such as the polymers.

: I think Jeffrey Everett is subscribed to this list. He has experience with

: these polymers and other processes. He has given me very solid advice in

: the past. Jeffrey are you out there?

: David, I do not know where you live. If you need help finding a supplier

: for these polymers or other etchers or suppliers let me know, I will see

: what I can do.

: I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving day today.

: Regards

: Kenneth Gastineau

: >>Then you simply use an iron to transfer your toner/blue coating mixture

: to

: (snip)

: >> -Kurt

: This one rang a bell. I read somewhere that you can do the same with

: silicone release paper, the stuff that computer labels come mounted

: on. Cannot remember where I saw it mentioned though, and hey, I

: have not tried it yet, so don't blame me if you have to go and grovel

: to the copier guardian about gumming up the works.

: Kevin Eva, Northern England, UK

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