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Content Spamming and Tagging or Spamdexing

webminster - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - 4:27pm
Site Help - FAQ | Money Makers

WHAT IS CONTENT SPAMMING? Best description of the various types of unwanted spamming can be found in Wikipedia's description of Spamdexing.

ArtMetal has been a great resource for the metal arts since the beginning of the World Wide Web. We have a desire to keep it that way. We use automated spam software from akismet to help us keep the heavy spam from unregistered visitors to the web site. Many of these visitors are actually spambots that attempt to publish unrelated information on the artmetal.com web site. Akismet does a very good job at stopping this sort of spam.

But its not what I want to talk about. Some of our subscribed members are taking advantage to promote their own sites when it is really not proper. I'm talking about folks that leave a one liner comment on another members legitimate post just to put a hyperlink back to their personal web site. This action, believe it or not, is really hurting the one liner comment link. Google is not stupid! They know all about comment spamming. And my understanding is that, when their search engines find comment spamming, they flag the offending link web site and stop using the links for search results.

So if you think you are getting better search ratings by adding a url to all your one liners, then you are in for a surprise! Please note that every registered user has a link automatically added to your posts and comments by the artmetal system back to your user profile. Within your user profile there is a place for you to add a link back to your web site. This is more than enough cross linking for not only the search engines to find your web site, but also for other members of the ArtMetal community to find more information about you and your metal art.

WHAT IS TAG SPAMMING?

One of the features that ArtMetal has when creating a new post is the ability to tag the post with keywords that emphasize the content of the post. This is very useful for search engines AND visitors coming to the ArtMetal site desiring to get related information based on the tags that we are providing in our posts.

Now, I want to say that for the most part, tags are being used properly on the ArtMetal web site. However, I just spent the whole morning going in and editing individual posts by a couple of our members that have decided to create a keyword for their personal work and web sites. I consider this tag spamming! Again, if someone is interested in your personal work, all they need to do is to follow the link that is boldly displayed on each of your posts/comments back to your user profile. They can then see every post and comment you have ever made.

LAST WORD...

Folks, I love you all dearly! I love working metal! I love sharing the knowledge of metalworking! This is the main reason the ArtMetal.com site was started. A place to share metalworking knowledge to anyone interested. The reason I overhauled the site to make it into a social networking web site was to give each of you a voice to learn and to pass the knowledge you have to others. This site IS NOT just a cross link site! Yes, it is a great site to show your art. It's a great site to get exposure for your personal metal art. It's a great site to meet other metalworkers. But if all you are doing on this site is spamming to get links back to your personal web site, then please stop posting! Go play somewhere else.

Sincerely & with affection,

Enrique


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Janet Rutkowski's picture

Sharing the Wealth ( of information)

Janet Rutkowski - Tuesday, April 3, 2007 - 7:37pm

Enrique,

First of all I'd like to thank you for creating this site. Although I've only found it recently I check it frequently and enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and ideas. This weekend I had a friend who is a magazine editor( for a top design magazine) over to my studio and home. I was talking about this site and how much information is shared. She was truely impressed and intriqued. She felt that the New York community is very closed off and secretive about their work and methods. I agree. I really enjoy this site. I loved seeing the process of blacksmithing those art deco leaves for the console. And I really loved the video of Peru.I hope I will be a contribution to this site. Janet R.


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Rich Waugh's picture

QuiQue, Good points, all.

Rich Waugh - Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - 12:37am

QuiQue,

Good points, all. Someday, when I get either the money or the knowledge, I'll set up a website of my own and post the link...once. Unti then, if'n anybody wants to seee my work they'll hav eto look in the gallery here or drop by the shop for a visit. Since I live in the middle of the Caribbean, that probably won't be much of an issue. (grin)

Thisis a valuable resource, and I thank you for all your efforts.


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J.R. Tamayo's picture

Rich, I, for one, would love

J.R. Tamayo - Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - 12:52am

Rich,

I, for one, would love to drop in on you, in the middle of the Carribean, and visit you, your work, and your shop!

J.R.


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Janet Rutkowski's picture

Rich in the Caribean

Janet Rutkowski - Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - 7:27am

Rich,

Me too ! Would love to visit. Are you in St. Croix?
How do you get all your supplies? Is it hard to get different types of metal, like aluminum? Keep posting your work. It's great to see what everyone else is doing.Check out my web site, let me know what you think. Janet R.


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Bill Roberts's picture

Island hoppin..... :)

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - 6:10pm

Rich,
I'd love to come for a visit....and I'm not that far away. I'm gonna have to google map "Frederiksted, VI". JUST did it..the shore line isn't focused but the inland areas are. Scary I know... don't be careful what you wish for.....be specific. LOL
Bill Roberts


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Bill Roberts's picture

tag spammers ?!

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - 6:01pm

E,
amazing what ya learn if we pay attention. Content spamming, tag spamming, spamdexing ya say?......new to me. I noticed that I must have been ONE of those that you
"spent the whole morning going in and editing individual posts by a couple of our members that have decided to create a keyword for their personal work and web sites. I consider this tag spamming!"
Considering that I started adding the CDMA to those posts many months ago......while in the learning curve of the new Site...and what the heck "cloud tags" were :) I have to plead ignorance to the fact that it was or wasn't RIGHT.

"I am not ashamed to admit, that I am ignorant of the things I do not know"!
Ciecro :)

All it would have taken was a lil "heads up", many months ago, and I'd have been more than happy to remove them and save you the trouble. I personally never looked at that tag as any more than a way to link ALL of the postings with a cloud tag........because 1. that's the way I understood the tags to work and 2. because I didn't see how any of the other cloud tags would accomplish the same thing. 3. NO ONE said anything when I did it. And it wasn't an original idea....I think someone mentioned it early on when there was all the discussion about what/how to use "cloud tags".
I'm not trying to pass any blame......I'm just passing on the facts. :) There seems to be an inference that it was my intent to spam. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sorry you took it that way. And I have a hard time thinking that anyone else that's a regular on the list /site would knowingly do that. But I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
I've just noticed that you've added a lil HELP in the tag section....this really would have helped in the beginning. (DO NOT tag/spam your name, web site, etc. Tag metal related words only!) WHO knew, the fix could be this easy? LOL

well that covers cloud tags.....now I need to know the RULES on signatures. What's acceptable on artmetal.com? names with no active urls? NO urls at all?.......or what? And does this mean everywhere on the site? or blogs . or images..... ? I'm quite certain that all the regulars want nothing more than to do this right....we just need to know what the rules and expectations are. And just a lil "heads up" if the rules change.
Sincerely & with affection,
Bill Roberts


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webminster's picture

Everything in moderation

webminster - Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 12:03pm

Ever heard of "everything in moderation?" If you use that concept in life, things will go much smoother.

Bill states: "I am not ashamed to admit, that I am ignorant of the things I do not know"!

"Ignorance is bliss" right?

Bill, when I wrote the above post, I did it without pointing fingers at anyone. That you have taken it personally means to me that somewhere in your mind you knew you were spamdexing. Maybe I should have written about this subject at the beginning of creating this new interactive part of ArtMetal. But to be honest, there was just too many "irons in the fire" to create an faq/help topic specifically on spamming. I was hoping folks would be sensitive and knowledgeable enough to know if they were taking advantage of cross linking, spamdexing, etc. The registering procedure does go into cross linking, but it doesn't spell it out. I was just hoping that the end user would use common sense when posting. Anyway, we now have an faq/help post addressing this issue.

Bill states: ...now I need to know the RULES on signatures.

Let me ask, when you read the original post above, does it not address the issue on signatures? Please read again the paragraph starting with:

"So if you think you are getting better search ratings by adding a url to all your one liners, then you are in for a surprise! Please note that every registered user has a link automatically added to your posts and comments by the artmetal system back to your user profile"...

Try using a little common sense Bill. If you are responding with one liner comments to other peoples posts, why would you want to put in a link to your web site? If on the other hand, you are creating a post, or responding to a post, and you have some content on your web site that might add definition to the content, then put the url to the applicable page on your web site. Doesn't this make sense?

What else do I need to say to clarify this subject? Oh, I know. Did you follow and read the content to the link I provided to the Wikipedia articles on Spamdexing? Take some time out from metal art and learn the ins and outs on this important subject.

Sincerely & also with affection,

Enrique 


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Bill Roberts's picture

E, LET me cut to the

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Friday, April 6, 2007 - 10:41am

E,
LET me cut to the chase...Help me help you.......again I ask Specifically........would you like us ALL to go back through our posts and remove the active and un active URL info related to our sites? I'm just trying to find out exactly what you'd like US to do. That's all.......I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to comply. This could be as simple as.....yes or no.

I'd rather not waste any time responding to your comments........:) sorry. I won't try to give you any more insight into how anyone could "innocently" offend.

E states:
"Ever heard of "everything in moderation?" If you use that concept in life, things will go much smoother."

"..means to me that somewhere in your mind you knew you were spamdexing."

"Maybe I should have written about this subject at the beginning of creating this new interactive part of ArtMetal. But...."

"..hoping folks would be sensitive and knowledgeable enough to know..."

"Try using a little common sense Bill."

"What else do I need to say to clarify this subject? Oh, I know."

sincerely,
bill


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webminster's picture

Do not go back to edit your

webminster - Friday, April 6, 2007 - 2:48pm

Do not go back to edit your posts Bill. Just use common sense in the future. Simple enough?


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Bill Roberts's picture

common sense got me in this

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Friday, April 6, 2007 - 4:38pm

common sense got me in this fun lil MESS. :)

just for the heck of it I went back to see some of my posts, and who else may have done this attaching of urls...enlightening to say the least. One of the earliest "one line posts with an attache d URL.......was yours QQ...I was surprised to see all the RED update and new "flags". like on this page.

http://www.artmetal.com/tracker?page=16

now I'm wondering why I might have felt singled out .......LOL silly me.

pretty subtle way to "not point fingers".......... Please in the future........IF I've done something wrong......... please notify me personally and I'd be more than happy to fix it. It's always been my intention to help...... do unto others......ya know.

hindsight they say is 20/20.......after seeing all the RED and only seeing it related to ME.......your statements take on new meaning.....

"I just spent the whole morning going in and editing individual posts by a couple of our members that have decided to create a keyword for their personal work and web sites. I consider this tag spamming"

and your other statement:

"But if all you are doing on this site is spamming to get links back to your personal web site, then please stop posting! Go play somewhere else."

As I tried to tell you in my first response.....it was not my intention, nor did I even KNOW that what I was doing was wrong or a problem. Much less that it would have you "spending a whole morning" editing my posts. I've been here since the beginning and have alway contributed where I could. I'm very fond of my extended Artmetal family. IF, for whatever reason, you'd not like me on this site anymore.....just say so. I've never stayed anywhere I wasn't made to feel welcome. Don't know many that would.

sincerely,

bill


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webminster's picture

Bill says: "One of the

webminster - Saturday, April 7, 2007 - 12:45am

Bill says: "One of the earliest "one line posts with an attache d URL.......was yours QQ"

Yes Bill, early on I did a few with the link in the sig without knowing the consequences. And then I was informed on the drupal cms forums about the google black listing of comment spamming based on sig link signatures. So I stopped doing it. I also realized that there was no need to do this based on the way our system automatically adds links back to the user account profile. So I stopped doing it long ago.

 Bill says: "IF, for whatever reason, you'd not like me on this site anymore.....just say so."

My original post was not addressed to you personally. It was addressed to anyone who feels they need to constantly spam the artmetal.com site with their web site address. I see that you have stopped putting your web site address in all your posts. So I'm assuming you do not desire to spam artmetal.

Please don't take my message as a personal attack! I do appreciate your contribution to the discussions we have on ArtMetal. 


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Bill Roberts's picture

Still Curious.... :)

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 1:07pm

E.
I'm still trying to understand this. Who does the URL w/signature hurt?...Artmetal....? or the person with the URL?
My first reaction was that it was a bad thing for Artmetal. I'm thinking I may have gotten it backwards. Please help clarify this for me. And by "moderation" did you mean sometimes it's ok to add it here and other times it's not?

thanks for Assuming I don't want to SPAM artmetal LOL....
bill


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webminster's picture

Bill, Putting your web site

webminster - Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 6:25pm

Bill,

Putting your web site hot link on ArtMetal to your web site on every post is going to hurt YOU (your web site). Google has a way to see when you are comment spamming on a particular site. This being ArtMetal, and as much as you comment, well then... what do you think is going to happen?

Please don't get me wrong. We all appreciate very much your contributions in comments and posts here at ArtMetal. I'm just giving you a heads up on adding your web site to every post you make. I personally consider this action overkill and in poor taste. Especially when folks can easily find your web site by going to your user profile. There's several links on every post and comment that gives the user access to your profile.

As I've said before. If you have content on your web site, then by all means, please reference it with a hot link. We all want to learn and exposing us to good content is very appreciated.

Any more questions?


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Bill Roberts's picture

Thanks E, Somehow I had it

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 8:02pm

Thanks E,
Somehow I had it backwards...thought it was bad for Artmetal. Now I understand the moderation comment too.....LOL
Spammers is a derogatory term to most of us and I don't think anyone wants to be accused of doing that on purpose. Appreciate you keeping us up to date on the latest stuff.
bill


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Alex in Welderland's picture

No problem

Alex in Welderland - Friday, April 6, 2007 - 7:09pm

I think some people, me included, see this site more as a 'forum', and in forums it is not uncommon to have your url in your signature (and those don't count enough for google to take notice of, it is mainly for the people you are actually 'talking' to in the forum itself)

I do forget that it is set up with different parameters, and therefore probably gets a different reading. I remember trying to help people get started and saying that it was similar to a forum set up, and for them to read 'blog entry' as 'forum post' to get the similarity.

So no problem, no urls in the sigs...

Love,
Alex


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Bill Roberts's picture

I agree Alex, I think we

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Monday, April 9, 2007 - 9:44am

I agree Alex, I think we were all playing follow the Leader on this one. But one thing that did come out of all this is that the comment you made about New or Updated info not always coming to the TOP of the list. It apparently doesn't always DO that. Here's a page that's buried with those posts.

http://www.artmetal.com/tracker?page=16

I never noticed it before so glad you brought it up......every once in a while it may pay to go through the old posts. Bill


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webminster's picture

The reason those pages

webminster - Monday, April 9, 2007 - 11:24am

The reason those pages didn't come to the first is because they were "edits" and not "new" comments or posts. It all has to do with the published date. Make any sense?


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Bill Roberts's picture

It does.......some were

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Monday, April 9, 2007 - 11:37am

It does.......some were marked updates and others were marked new. I was curious what the difference was. And IF we decide to edit some of our past posts...is there a way to make them "pop" to the top of the list?
thanks for the info.


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webminster's picture

The only way that I know to

webminster - Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:17pm

The only way that I know to make a post "pop" to the top of the list is to add a new comment to the post. Seems the average user can not change the date of a previous post. I did notice that when one edits a comment, the date is changed. But that would mean the comment was updated.


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Bill Roberts's picture

E states:

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:29am

E states:
"One of the features that ArtMetal has when creating a new post is the ability to tag the post with keywords that emphasize the content of the post. This is very useful for search engines AND visitors coming to the ArtMetal site desiring to get related information based on the tags that we are providing in our posts.
Now, I want to say that for the most part, tags are being used properly on the ArtMetal web site. However, I just spent the whole morning going in and editing individual posts by a couple of our members that have decided to create a keyword for their personal work and web sites.I consider this tag spamming!"

My response:
I would like to discuss this part in more detail. The TAG that you removed was CDMA, it was not added to promote my person website. The only reason I added it was to have a "one click" option to see all my posts. It's my understanding that's the WHOLE reason for cloud tags in the first place .....to make it easier to see common things. I still think it's not a bad thing and I'd like to suggest that it would make "getting around" artmetal easier for everyone. I'd personally like it if everyone that submits a LOT of content would make a TAG that would do the same thing. Those tags don't promote anyone's web site.....just links the content that they've shared on artmetal. And if one of the goals of this site is to make it easier to USE...then I think we are missing an opportunity to do exactly that. Your interpretation that it's tag spamming ....... IMO.....is an over reaction of some sort. Like I've stated a number of times......it not only was not my intention, as I've explained above.... but I don't believe it is spamming. And from everything I've read on it...it isn't spam at all.

IF for whatever reason you don't like that I used those initials....CDMA.........I'd be more than happy to use bjr, which is my touchmark anyway. I just think that a one click option makes more sense. That's the purpose of cloud tags, shame not to use them to their full potential, IMHO.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts,
Bill


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webminster's picture

Misinterpretation of tagging clouds

webminster - Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 1:55pm

Bill, you're wrong in your interpretation of the tagging content and tag clouds. I'm going to be brief. You want to have a way to have access to ALL YOUR POSTS/COMMENTS. Right? Why don't you try to go to your user profile and click on "TRACK"? Every user has one of these links.

Please use the tags to only identify the "metal" content of the post you are creating. That way, folks looking for things like "welding" or "blacksmith" or "aluminum" will get the specific content they are interested in seeing. They will also see which tags have more information on the front page by seeing the size of the tag. The larger fonts indicate more content on the specific tag. 


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Bill Roberts's picture

E,

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 3:48pm

E,
With all due respect, thanks for your response, and interpretation. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. I hope it helps all of us see this situation for what it is.
I have no doubt that I completely understand how and why tags are used. This isn't rocket science. This NEVER was about me accessing my content. I'm sorry but your "assumption" is silly, and just wrong. You've missed the point all together. Life's about choices, maybe you choose not to see it. I know how to use the site and find my content. It was an attempt to make it easier for those that aren't as familiar with the site. Most of us are aware that there is a lil learning curve to "using" the site. There are still some of us "long time" artmetalites that are having probs. Author tags are common practice, especially on sites that have many authors. Common sense might suggest that it's actually a GOOD idea in these circumstances. But if you personally don't want any on Artmetal that is a personal choice that you get to make, and we'll comply.
But to say that it's spamming IMO is incorrect, and does a disservice to the many contributors. Spam and spammers has a serious negative connotation to all of us. No one wants to be accused of this. And to do so is in "poor taste" to use your phrase.

SO.. now your gonna have to explain to me why the word "blacksmith" is ok as a tag, as you state in your response.....but "ornamental metalsmith" isn't? And the tag "house jewelry" which I've used to describe my metalwork for OVER 20 years.......that is NOW unacceptable too? It was fine, and on here for about a year....but now....NOPE. I might add that I KNOW they are NOW unacceptable because, again....for whatever reason, you've taken it upon yourself to remove them. Without giving me a "heads up" or the common courtesy of an explanation.
Thank God I'm not just a "blacksmith" or apparently you'd remove that too. It's easy to follow the rules if they didn't change so much. LOL trying to comply is almost getting comical. ;)

I appreciate ya, respectfully.......
bill
FWIW,
Tags are Web page and/or database descriptors -- e.g. title, author, language, date, subject -- that are assigned to documents. One of their main purposes is to help people find information.

Bill


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webminster's picture

Bill says: SO.. now your

webminster - Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:17pm

Bill says: SO.. now your gonna have to explain to me why the word "blacksmith" is ok as a tag, as you state in your response.....but "ornamental metalsmith" isn't? And the tag "house jewelry" which I've used to describe my metalwork for OVER 20 years.......that is NOW unacceptable too?

Bill, I think I have explained everything quite well and I really don't have the time to continue trying to explain to you what I have said. You are the only person that has taken this FAQ/HELP topic personally. The cloud tags are NOT FOR PERSONAL TAGGING! These tags are for common words which describe the content being created by this community.

I have gone through several hundred tags which members of this community have included in their posts. I have deleted hundreds of these tags because they were not descriptive or confusing so that the cloud tags listed on the front page  have now become meaningful. I will continue to see what is being tagged and edit appropriately so that the content produced by the ArtMetal community is adequately represented.

Bill says: This NEVER was about me accessing my content. I'm sorry but your "assumption" is silly, and just wrong.

So tell me Bill what does "CDMA" stand for?

 


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Bill Roberts's picture

Does the term author tag or

Bill Roberts (not verified) - Monday, April 16, 2007 - 2:15pm

Does the term author tag or contributor tag ring a bell? And as I've said over and over again it's a tag that WAS acceptable for almost a year here. It's history. And a waste of time to rehash at this point.
Haven't a clue why your still referring to it. Seriously thought we'd moved beyond that...I know I'm OVER it. :) I have been paying attention..."NO personal tags", I get it. I'm not using personal tags. Have no desire to use personal tags.

My sole purpose in asking these questions was to HELP clarify what was acceptable and not acceptable.

Just as the acceptable Tag "blacksmith" denotes a certain type of smith, that only works with iron.... please tell me a Tag that you'll find acceptable to denote a smith that works with many different metals doing only decorative metalwork?


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