Rambling

warren - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 10:28am

I thought I would start a new blog and just do some rambling here, anybody got a good subject? Well since in the video post some items were brough up I thought I would just go on.

Joe you are completely right about having the full menu. I always try to bring an appetizer or two. My restaurant though has the cloth napkins.
On the topic of mass produced and cheap art and pricing, art does not have to be expensive. I myself bring some of those under $25 items. Since I have been doing art fairs for so many years and now relying on them more you have too. Heck back in the 70's I started making copper roses. At that time I sold them for $3 each. I called it my gas money because if it was not for a couple of $3 dollar sells I could not have made it home. Now the roses are selling for $15 each and cannot keep them in the booth. No I do not mass produce them per say, maybe cut six of them up at one time but no patterns no fancy machines to do the work, all by hand and simple tools.
But on the mass produced items the CNC plasma has made it too easy for some. Nothing like having 200 lizards cut out and then have a whole box of them to replace the ones that might have sold. That is the part that I do not like about some of the art fairs and people selling just to make money. Further researching this one guy in particular I found he was one of those vendor type where he was having the lizards and things cut out for him out of the country (you can put the Asian nation here). Then he would hire people to sell the products at the art fairs under his name. Boy oh boy! More and more of this going on. The CNC plasma cutters are good for some things but getting way out of hand in my opinion and taking away the creativeness. Might as well go to Crate and Barrel or what ever discount home interior store.

Surprise what you see at two different fairs and where they are located. Sunday was a day off for me and there were two fairs located locally. The first one I visited was in Birmingham, MI. This is a very very upscale super upper class city. While trying to find a place to park everywhere I looked somebody was carrying a piece of art. One guy was lugging two metal sculptures to his car. Dang I thought wish I had made this fair. Looking around and every booth was selling, I mean really selling, people were waiting in line. The artist at this fair are all top notch items, no stick items or mass produced, they jury all of them out. Some really impressive and creative art.
Next fair was in Clinton Township, MI which is kind of middle to upper class area. I had no problem finding a parking spot. While viewing the booths not a lot going on, couple of sales here and there. Now looking at the artist was a really big change compared to the other. A lot of nick knacks and some of the mass produced stuff. Nothing new and much of the same stuff you see at all of the art fairs. I am not going to add this fair to my list.
But it was great to see the two different types of art fairs and one thing that I am trying to do is get more involved with the folks that run them so you can get a better understanding of the customers for the local. I have been to some that were not worth the trouble and my mistake for not doing better research.
As far as the comment that art fairs should be for the general public, not too sure about this because usually most art fairs are there for the sideline of the carnival rides and the little city party. The fairs that are just art fairs you will find more of the upper class and more people buying the art and not the lets do something today crowd.

BJ on owning the store in the other post I agree with Enrique comments that artist do not really want to get involved. Just look at this site when ever some one says lets do this you get some head nods but very little will make the effort. There are some venues close to this and one that I am about to proceed into. A lady is starting a kind of you work here and sell your art here type of business. It is going to be in one of the big expensive high in malls. You pay a monthly fee of $200 and then also have to work 24 hours in a month. They will only take 5% commission. She is looking for 100 artists to get it started. Much different way of doing business and is suppose to start next month and last for three months. Only problem is that she wants two months up front and then a hundred bucks for start up fee. Not sure if I have the $500 laying around but something that may work out. Also not sure if it good to go because she has not contacted the artist yet, last time I talked to her having hard time getting the artist to commit, like me.
And as Joe pointed out the Holidays are coming, not my thing.

BJ I also like your comment about not just adding to inventory, but man that is hard not to do. Well I guess you have to look at what you are making is if you want to make it or do you have to make it. I still in the mode that I want to make it and just looking for another piece to have. Running out of ideas and I still want my style. It is funny how you get people to suggest that you should make some of these or some of those to sell.

Well time to get out in the shop and figure out what to make today, let the muse work.

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Warren, I think most had

Jamie Santellano - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 5:20pm

Warren,

I think most had some good points to share on the last blog. I have to agree though with Joe. He made some good points about having pieces that make you the money to enable you to go on creating.

I don't mass-produce my work either, although like your roses I have made 6-10 of the same pieces at a time, for the simple fact that they are a big seller. As long as "they" want it I will make it.

I feel very much the same about the fancy mass-production tools, and feel that handmade is always better. There is a warmth to handmade work, and close attention to detail that maybe overlooked otherwise.

I have sold at a select few fairs, and found that the ones that are juried seem to have a better turn out with those that value handmade pieces than the ones that allow the imports. For one it hurts our economy, and takes a way from the quality.

In my last post I mentioned that I am looking at other ways to make money by using unconventional methods in selling my Wearable Art. Before we had this economical crisis hit, I had been faced with a divorce, and was faced with high debt etc. etc. Last year I felt I was on my way with my work and feeling good about taking on less commissions and feeling more at ease and free to create to my hearts content. Well last September that all changed, and just as I thought things were about to turn around that's when things started to fall apart globally.

By trade I am a hairdresser of 15 years, and never ever thought that both the Art and Hair would slow down at the same time.

Well it has, and the pressure of raising my daughter as a single parent has become more great than ever before in this economy.

My boyfriend, a jewelry designer of 32 yrs. plus has always said there is a need to create a bread and butter line...not really wanting to do that, I've decided to teach wire wrapping and chain mail...others' can learn a simple technique in a couple of hours, I get paid, and it enables me to create the bread and butter line to get me through these tough times. Yes, I've caved!!!

I won't work this way forever, but just long enough to get to the next level.

For me I guess it's all about doing what I got to do...survival mode...putting food on the table for my daughter, and paying the bills. There is still enjoyment in what I do it's just been altered to fit my current situation.

Whether it's wire wrapping, chain mail, or cutting hair there is still an art to it...others' might think its a played out market, but however it's labled it's really what is done with the materials that makes it unique, and the connection that is felt while in that creation process which makes the difference, and felt when handled.

Anyhow those are my ramblings and my reasons for doing what I do at this time in my life. I know it won't be this way forever, but just until my work get off the ground.

Always my best,

Jamie Santellano

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Jamie, I think you are right

copperjoe - Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 5:14am

Jamie, I think you are right about the things that you said. The bottom line for most of us here is that, #1 we have to survive. We have to eat, pay bills and get a haircut every once in a while(Warren......I think it's time!)We all love doing what we are doing and if we want to keep on, then sometimes we have to do things that we don't like. No one likes their job 100% of the time.

We just have to know when to stop on the so called "mass" production. Will it get so bad that we go out and buy a plasma cutter to start mass producing? Is it really wrong to use a plasma cutter to cut out leaves or circles. I don't think so but what Warren is saying is that when you attach that to a CNC machine and push a button, That is what is called Mass produced.

I think teaching is a great thing. The art of handmaking something is dieing and others need to learn so that they can struggle like we do, LOL. But really, look in the phone book and see how many blacksmiths or whitesmiths that is in there.

I believe people like handmade items, but it is so hard to compete with the Asian countries. Yes, our quality is better and our Art is better looking, but at the end of the day, all that matters is what is left in the pocketbook. Like I said before, if we want to survive then we have to think outside the box. We have to figure out how to make handmade quality art at a low price without compromising our integrity. What that actually means is that we make art for cost of materials.

Teaching is a great thing, don't stop! We never stop learning.

Thanks,
Copperjoe

Can't never could do Nothing!
www.carolinacoppercreations.com

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In my opinion, there are two

eligius1427 - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 8:54pm

In my opinion, there are two types of "working" artists, and by that I mean artists that depend on selling their work to make a living.

The first type solely makes art that they want to make, emotions, feelings, nightmares and dreams conveyed into 2D and/or 3D representations of whatever media strikes the artist's fancy. The art is put on display for the public to see and talk about and then they wait for someone to buy it. These types of artists can get the crowd stirred up by really pushing moral bounds and end up with pretty good exposure because of it They can really challenge political and social norms and often times are making a statement.

The second type has just as much passion and talent as the first but instead of focusing their art/efforts on making a statement to the world, they focus their efforts on ensuring that they can continue to do what they love to do forever and have that passion pay for itself, and the rest of life's expenses. The feeling and reasons for the art's creation are the same for this artist as the first type except for one thing, this latter group considers who is going to buy it, which does indeed affect the outcome of the art. As opposed to waiting for someone to come to him or her, this group often times goes out to find people or opportunities to sell their work.

I personally don't think one group is better than the other, although I know a lot more "starving artists" from the first group than the second. The market for a piece of art involving $100 bills glued to a canvas, smeared with feces and lacquered to symbolize the state of the economy is very, very small, even if the statement is very profound. There is the chance that they'll find their market, usually museums pushing the boundaries, but the odds are similar to becoming a headline movie star. Group 2 artists will have shows with similar profound works, but the work will usually be different from the art that pays the bills.

I definitely fall into the latter group as do most of the people on this site in my opinion, so it makes sense to have bread and butter lines or to tailor your booth's wares to the crowd and economic conditions at hand. We can still create works solely for ourselves, they just may be spaced out a little more than they are during more lucrative periods. Nobody is "selling out" nor should people feel the need to defend what they do. I know so many people that are absolutely miserable because they are stuck doing something they hate. The goal is to be able to continue to do what you love to do as an artist by creating art, that is the only way you'll get the opportunity to accomplish your personal artist goals, whatever they may be.

Jake

Jake Balcom
Mettle Design
Lincoln, NE

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Excellent

warren - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 10:23pm

Jamie, yeah the last year has been a real blow for me too. Seems so strange not having to wake up to go to work. Well now metal art is my work so I work 12 hour days instead of 8s. Also I have only had one hair cut in the last year. Jake some very good comments, and I think you have seen enough of my work that you know I am not the first one. Can smiley faces be put on here. When ever I enter a grin with the arrows it disappears, any how I am grinning. Besides that Jake fame costs a lot to get there.

And I am not disagreeing one bit about you have to have the bread and butter items, some like white some whole grain but you still have to have a "product" for the folks to buy in the "market" that you are selling to.
Bread

Here is my bread item, one of my trees that I make. This one is all copper, including the hand cut with torch 200 leaves. Sold for $875, takes me three days to make and half an hour to sell.

www Metalrecipes -- heat and beat to the desired shape, repeat as necessary. warren

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pause?

B.J. Severtson - Thursday, October 1, 2009 - 8:49am

I noticed a pause in this thread. (See me grinning.) I wonder if that is because your price point on your bread and butter product has caused many to reconsider their concept of bread and butter items? A paradigm shift for many? perhaps? By the way I really like the tree. I also have to grin at your mention of now working the 12 hour days as opposed to the previous life of 8's. I think many of us find there is a difference between the romantic notion of being an artist and the day to day reality. Most of us resist the temptation to remove one ear. Well most days any way. You are almost implying that there is some sort of personal discipline that is needed to succeed as an artist. (grinning again) One observation I've made over the years is that smithing has it's moments when process takes over and my mind is allowed to ponder as I work. Since I own the tools there is no one to accuse me of day dreaming,
no supervisor to correct my behavior. When there is a dispute here between labor and management, It's a conversation I have with myself. There is something else that finds itself getting into this making of stuff. A vital ingredient, perhaps. Something beyond just a desire
to make things, more stuff. When this ingredient gets lost nothing seems to work right, then stuff I've made is just stuff. Ya, gotta have a passion, a heart for it, a love of doing it. Your passion shows in the work I've seen. Bravo.
On a side note: I am capable of hand writing notes like this to my friends. I actually own pens, paper, envelopes? well, I guess I could make an envelope. I doubt I would buy stamps to do this. I much more prefer to share concepts and ideas this way as opposed to the "hand crafted" method of years gone by. I'll let others carry on the time honored craft of hand writing. That's where I draw a line in the sand. Believe me it's better this way. BJ

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Not sure why more people

eligius1427 - Thursday, October 1, 2009 - 9:39am

Not sure why more people aren't chiming in.

Warren, I remember this piece, and it doesn't surprise me that it's a hot seller. Fantastic concept too, with the exact same number of parts you can still make every tree different. I forgot how great the contrast was between the leaves and trunk.

BJ, I have a one man shop as well and I agree completely with you on time management. I can spend half a day "thinking" about something and I have walked out on the "boss" many times due to his over ambitious undertakings, lol. At the same time, as designer, fabricator, accountant, salesman, presenter, and counselor for the business, there is no way your getting away with an 40 hr workweek without help.

As for the cost of bread and butter items, i hope everyone realizes that that number depends on the individual, process, materials, etc. To put it in perspective, at Warren's 12hr day he makes(not counting in materials) $25/hr, however if someone sold $15 items that take a half hour to make, they make $30/hr with both parties having the same success at the event. Smaller items always win the $/hour war, but it can be tough sometimes to sell enough to equal the big sale. In this case, 59 of the smaller items would have to sell to equal the tree. I personally, like Warren, find it much easier to concentrate on and sell larger "bread and butter" items, but I have a buddy, in a different profession, that completely blows my income away selling $8 items at events. We each have our strong points and it's important to capitalize on them, other wise it can be a long bumpy road.

Jake

Jake Balcom
Mettle Design
Lincoln, NE

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Agreement

warren - Thursday, October 1, 2009 - 10:25am

Yeah little bit of pause going on, pondering? Yep you are right Brad about the boss being you and you alone has to make it work. Same points from Jake about if you are a metal artist you have to be able to wear many hats to succeed. I think somewhere it is 60% in the shop and 40% marketing.
And discussing the bread and pricing good going on doing the math Jake. Yep I try to get the $25 an hour while in the shop, but sitting out in the lawn chair trying to sell at an art fair pays nothing an hour.
No win hours no matter how you look at it, but still have to come out with some kind of wage after all of the expenses.
Still trying to figure out how to make things less expensive, not how to make but what to make. Market is so saturated. Maybe little trees since trees sell so well (grinning again).

www Metalrecipes -- heat and beat to the desired shape, repeat as necessary.
warren

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Warren, Since I've been

Jamie Santellano - Thursday, October 1, 2009 - 10:45am

Warren,
Since I've been creating jewelry, I've often thought of new ways to sell items for less, but there's still labor, materials, and knowledge that have to be taken in to account...like Jake said about all the different facets it takes to make it all happen.

I've also read up on this in the Art Calendar mag. that instead of dropping prices for the sake of getting the sale, and using less quality materials to consider a simpler approach.

For example, I still use sterling no matter the cost in materials to create, but instead of just selling the necklace, I make the pendant available on it's own. I've still created it by hand and it's still made from quality materials...it's just now available with out the heavy chain. This is my approach in lowering the cost. The pendant is still the same price and is included in the necklace, so I haven't lost anything on the materials, time, etc. etc.

Your trees are great! Nice contrast...maybe smaller trees would be good, or even branches of the trees to hang on the wall...yes, it's been done before, but keep in mind that the world needs to see it through your interpretation. :-) And that's what makes it so unique, and a must have!

Jamie Santellano

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Well said Jake! Jamie

Jamie Santellano - Thursday, October 1, 2009 - 10:28am

Well said Jake!

Jamie Santellano

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cover all price ranges?

B.J. Severtson - Thursday, October 1, 2009 - 12:06pm

Jake, What I've found over the years is having something available in almost all price ranges increases my ability make a sale. What I've also found is the middle price ranges tend to sell the most frequently. I'm suggesting the upper ranges help sell the middle. and that the lower ranges help to break the threshold barrier. This holds true when people are purchasing for gift giving. They don't want to appear cheap or extravagant, so they buy the middle.
Merchants will frequently join the build it cheaper faster crowd and increase the amount of merchandise they handle in the lower price points. This could be a mistake, as they may find a vastly growing amount of competition in that price point. Without a proportionate growth in the customer base. It would be vastly easier to build and offer for sale items near the top and there by strengthen sales in the widened middle. I'm suggesting that the bottom of any market is extremely well defined. Middle ground can be expanded.
Case in point: During some hard economic times of the late 80's a jewelry store was growing at a rate of 30 percent annually. It wanted to continue the trend. That was going to take some doing. That year they made it the stores ambition to sell 100 one carat diamonds in one year! That's unheard of, unbelievable by the way, can't be done, most most veteran jewelers would say. Except that they had seen it done. Let me stop right here and say they failed miserably. They only sold thirty. Well they failed at the stated goal. But 30 one carat diamonds was 28 more than they had sold the previous year. That didn't include the 3/4 carats and halves that were sold to people that bought the middle. That also didn't include the two carat rbc.
They exceeded annual growth of thirty percent. by aiming at the top! BJ
PS: If you aim at surviving you probably will, if you aim at prospering you just might. If you ever succeed beyond your wildest dreams you will appreciate the value of wilder dreams.

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I have been reading all of

T Bourke - Friday, October 2, 2009 - 8:01pm

I have been reading all of the recent threads on earning a living making art. I find the balance between few large items and many small ones interesting. I am still finding my niche.

Right now I have some small items that would make great high volume items.

I also seam to be getting requests for stuff out side what I normally do. Not really creative stuff but stuff I have the skills needed to make happen.

Right now I am thinking that the above two will generate enough income to allow me to make some larger items I really want to make.

Now I just have to figure out the marketing and sales end of things.

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Donation Plate

lorrie - Friday, October 2, 2009 - 3:07pm

Donation Plate
Hi Warren,
I started a donation plate for you to get your hair cut!
Lorrie

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Oh no, now I am laughing out

warren - Friday, October 2, 2009 - 10:50pm

Oh no, now I am laughing out loud. Come on Lorrie you got to let us old hippies live out our life. thanks

www Metalrecipes -- heat and beat to the desired shape, repeat as necessary.
warren

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Hi all! Let`s chime in, and

NELSON - Saturday, October 3, 2009 - 12:39pm

Hi all!
Let`s chime in, and yep Warren, pondering I was too, lol.
Anyhow, sales strategies as all of you have mentioned are sound ways to bring bread and butter on the table. As on any other activity, specializing and diversifying both have advantages and disadvantages. During difficult times, I believe diversifying one`s production provides more sales, as the spectrum of prospective buyers is increased. As a farmer, I found out the hard way that when sales got tough I could sale not just citrus to a client, but peppers, tomatoes, papaws, and citrus as well...if I produced more then just limes,oranges and tangerines, so the full truck would empty out more quickly selling to even a smaller amount of clients. Well, might not be exact case, for is not likely for an artist to make a rail, a door, a bar,and a sculpture for a very same client. Nonetheless,if you make a good variety of stuff like Warren, Jamie, Frank and others mentioned, it should not be hard to find out what sells more and where to concentrate on being more cost efficient. Perhaps, somewhere between mass producing and unique hand crafted art, is where the easier profits are, since most of us find it hard to make stuff without a good degree of craftmanship or art. Whatever may work for each individual, I`m sure all agree that creativity not just to make things but also to sell them well, is a must. Good topic Warren. Greetings. nelson.

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