Marilyn,

I believe Marcia was one of the priviledged few who studied with Satuo Ando when he visited here in the 70's. The technique he taught is called Uchidashi by the Japanese and the metal is worked on a very hard pitch that is kept uncomfortably warm. If you note the texture around my beetle it is caused by these matted tools that Marcia showed you how to make. In Japanese these are called Dashtagane and the craftsman has to make them in a variety of sizes.

Fred Zweig
Metalsmith

I don't recall her saying anything about the pitch being hot. She the class use Seattle Pitchworks pitch which I already was doing. I wouldn't consider it hard but I don't have much to compare it to. The only other kind that I have used is the nasty black stuff.

marilyn

I'm beginning in this area as well. While i've worked with sculpture for a long time this is my first metal venture. I'm taking a short workshop from the Torpedo Factory in Alexandria Va. The basic process you posted is consistent with what he is saying. He is also a student of the Japanese styles so I will try to get info to share on that as well.

Are you aware of anyone working with copper on grand scales? I have several pieces that would be approximately 18" x 30" in 12 guage sheet. Does anyone have any idea how size might impact the repouse process?

Bob

Bob,

Great to hear you are delving into Repousse metalwork and the thrill of molding metal into shapes you desire. Your sculptural work will provide you with many skills you can use in this process. Understanding bas relief is very helpful.

Who is your instructor? Uchidashi is the japanese version of repousse and chasing. It allows for high relief and undercutting in the design.

Fred

Fred Zweig
Metalsmith

Fred,

Thanks for your encouragement.

My instructor is Michael Brehl. I love your work. My sketchbook for the next year or so is focused on doing a lot of reproduction work of traditional coppers in the style of the Kwaikiutl. I've promised myself to do two traditional pieces and then try two contempory versions of the designs that involve more relief. After a dozen or so pieces in these two variations I want to try several masks. Having never worked in metal before, I'm sure I've continued my artistic habit of biting off more than is logical, but it has worked in two mediums so I wanted to try a third.

I've just ordered Moving Metal, are there other readings you would suggest?

Bob

Bob,

Moving Metal is a good book for you to be using. Mr. Steines deals with the larger scale projects.

You might consider using hammers for your initial work and modifying old chisels for the scale of your work.

Fred

Fred Zweig
Metalsmith

I've read reference to using wooden forms to create a pattern and then hammering the copper into the forms. Historical refence to traditional "coppers" make reference to "the secret of hammering the copper into wood" to create the traditional T ridges and the "bowl" effect of some of the surfaces, so i presume this has been around for some time. I also recently read a bio for a weather vane artist that indicated the used such blocks to fashion weather vanes as well. Does this sound like reasonable practice for one of a kind pieces? Is the process to hammer the copper into a recess or over a sculpted positive image?

To create a wooden mold to model the metal into might be usedful when producing a number of items. Wood is often used to hammer over to help create the resistance needed to create some particular shapes. If you are going to sculpting the metal the most satisfying method is using hammers and punches on a variety of different surfaces. Some craftsmen and artists use pitch to give resistance and stability when modeling the shape. Others form into sandbags or stumps with shallow depressions. The metal is very plastic when you understand it's properties and develop a vocabulary of techniques and skills. It is important to "feel" and "listen" to the metal to understand how it is going to shape and bend.

The Statue of Liberty was created using sheet copper partly formed over wood models. The Steines book also shows the use of carpet to hammer onto. This may prove effective for what you are planing to create.

Please let us see your designs and progress and we will be more than glad to offer help in any way we can.

You have chosen a very heavy gauge to work with. The thickest I have ventured to work is 16 gauge. You will need to do a great deal of annealing on the copper. Hearing protection is a must.

Best,
Fred

Fred Zweig
Metalsmith

good morning fred,
ive been reading your very interesting reolies on this subject.i'm very interested in rennie mackintosh designs and would like to have a go at making a fairly simple panel(to start)from copper in a similar art nouveau style.
can you give me some advice on what basic tools and materials are needed?
many thanks in anticipation.
regards derek mallett
somerset.uk.

Welcome to the forum Derek,

Much will depend on your skill level. A great deal of the Mackintosh designs do not require a much relief to create. I would suggest starting with relatively light gauge copper, such as 32 gauge, and try embosing the light gauge metal on a resilient surface such as newspapers or a foam backing. If you use this light gauge you can score it with a ball point pen on the front and then press out the areas that you want raised by turning it over and pressing with a large wooden bead or the back of a wooden file handle. A darning egg might be good for larger surfaces. As your skill develops you can advance to thicker metal and eventually to steel tools and punches using pitch as a backing.

Let me know if this makes sense. Remember I have no idea what your experience is or your skill level is.

Best Regards,
Fred

Fred Zweig
Metalsmith

Fred,

I saw your advise above on starting with a light guage copper....unfortunately i was well into a project with 12 guage, which now has a crack. I'm doing some soul searching and more than a little down on myself even though it was a first piece. I'm recreating, or trying to a series of Northwestern Coppers, so if I'm to stay true to the traditional design, I have to go 16-12 guage. My crack developed in a v shaped channel in the piece on the edge. I suspect that i simply did not anneal the metal well enough. However the relief was almost 1/4 inch so maybe that was the problem? I started the v with an liner simply pushing down the center. I repeated this about 6 times using a wooden form the last two times. The shape was great although it clearly needed more chasing on the front side. At least one person has told me to hammer the metal more before i go for the V, pushing the metal towards what will become the center of the v depression, but frankly i'm stumped. Any ideas?

Bob

You clearly know much that I need to learn. I checked your web site...very nice. Do you teach at all?

Bob