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Wrought Iron
suicidesal5 -
Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 7:13am
Blacksmithing | Casting | Knife-makers I have been reading about wrought Iron and how it is hard to come by. I have also been reading about the variety of descriptions for it. The one thing I can't find an answer on is why it is not being made here in the US? I have read that to find it you have to order it from Europe or get it from old scraps. Being in New Orleans I am surrounded by it because of our French/Spanish influence. Our balconies and gates are decorated in it. Have our elements changed so much that we can no longer make it? Thanks. ![]() Rich is pretty much right
Ries -
Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 10:08am
Rich is pretty much right on- But basically, wrought iron is obsolete in all commercial applications, and has been for most things since before the second world war. OH- and the vast majority of New Orleans metalwork is Cast Iron, not Wrought Iron. ![]() Thanks for the clarification
Rich Waugh -
Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 11:49am
Thanks for the clarification on the Swedish mill and the New Orleans cast iron work, Ries. I'd forgotten about the Swedish output. Rich ![]() Both wrought iron and steel
Woodchuck Wroug... -
Friday, July 15, 2011 - 4:23pm
Both wrought iron and steel have thier benifits. I am quite torn myself. Growing up in the steel industry and more recently becoming a retailer of wrought iron. Very ture, it is getting very difficult to locate as itis not produced anymore. I deal with a great many blacksmiths since I have about 700,000 lbs of real wrought iron on hand. I see folkd going both ways and each artisan has thier prefence. Cost unfortunatly plays a big part in it these days. ![]() hmmmm... you should checkout
feorge -
Friday, June 25, 2010 - 8:05am
hmmmm... george ![]() Lee's done some great demos
Rich Waugh -
Friday, June 25, 2010 - 10:35am
Lee's done some great demos of the bloomery process and makes pretty cool stuff form them. Rich ![]() Thanks again
suicidesal5 -
Friday, June 25, 2010 - 6:16pm
Guys you rock my socks off! Again I ask a question and everyone is more than eager to anwer. I had no clue the iron on our balconys was cast, though now that it is said, it makes total sense. As I said I am in the begining of this all so I am still figuring out differences between different metals etc. Thanks again everyone! ![]() OH- and the vast majority of
Gerald Boggs -
Friday, June 25, 2010 - 9:03pm
OH- and the vast majority of New Orleans metalwork is Cast Iron, not Wrought Iron. So true :-( Gerald Boggs ![]() Thanks Gerald! Yes I have
suicidesal5 -
Monday, June 28, 2010 - 6:57am
Thanks Gerald! Yes I have seen some of Savanah's iron work, it too is beautiful. I think it's time I brush up on my New Orleans history, it's been about 15 years since I last studied it(in HS) but reading all the posts has lit the fire to revisit the subject. Our history is rich for sure but then so is any other city. Anyways thanks for the thoughts. ![]() As a p.s. to Gerald. I lived
suicidesal5 -
Monday, June 28, 2010 - 6:58am
As a p.s. to Gerald. I lived in Virginia for a year, Marion, Va. Loved it and the people, what a great area of the country. ![]() quest for iron
nick such -
Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 10:39pm
nick such sal: I'm new to am and I spotted your questions about the precious wrought material (from awhile back). Books I have on the subject mention industrial uses- primarily pipe in high corrosion situations, as well as many of the parts in steam locomotives, that were used well into the fifties in the states; elsewhere still in use! Bridges and structural ties in industrial buildings as well. These are big parts and probably mostly scrapped out by now. However for the smith the hunt is rich: Leg or post vises(older) are made from it(except for the jaw faces), of course most two piece anvils- the ones with blister steel faces- have wrought bodies that were built up from scrap. Old benches,forge bodies, and tool stands had wrought pipe legs (you can often see a raised seam on the pieces showing early "automated" forge welding). Old anchors and their chain. Old logging chains and hooks. Boiler bodies and tubes. Old farm machinery, wagon parts, and horse team gear to name some sources. My favorite ready to use is old wagon wheel "tires" (excellent axe heads once you add the high carbon edges)-you see these things in yards on Sunday drives in the country ![]() I do blacksmith work and
bigfootnampa -
Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 1:41am
I do blacksmith work and sometimes use wrought iron from old scrap. I find it MUCH more difficult to work than mild steel. I do not really like it much though it does have a certain historical cache. I have also found that in making pieces with a "rustic" appearance it has an affinity for that look that is hard to duplicate in modern steels. I like it's romance but for most practical use I prefer modern materials. Here in Missouri I have not found any shortage of the old wrought material though... with a bit of extra effort I'd have several tons of it by now. As it is I have a few hundred pounds worth and it seems approximately a lifetime supply. I guess what I am getting at is that I would recommend that you work with modern steels to begin with as you are likely to be more frustrated by wrought iron. Then when you do want some take the time to visit a few farm auctions/sales and you'll soon have a good supply. Flea markets and even antique malls can also produce reasonably priced stock. ![]() I agree with what you said -
Rich Waugh -
Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 10:55am
I agree with what you said - wrought takes different techniques and mild steel is a better material to learn on. It is, at least, consistent. Wrought can be anything from muck bar (lowest grade) to triple-refined (best) and different grades behave differently. All wrought needs to be worked at a near welding heat, very high yellow, or it will dissociate and crumble. In this day and age, with mild steel readily available and inexpensive, there is no reason to use wrought other than the historical cachet or when you want its unique appearance in something like pattern-welded steel. Rich ![]() For wonderful forged (not
Rob Sigafoos -
Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 5:21am
For wonderful forged (not cast) steel work check out Philadelphia. Perhaps because of the influence of Sam Yellin, Philadelphia has more than its share of real hand forged pieces most everywhere. Several years ago I was walking over a small road bridge that crossed the Schuylkill Expressway (aka the "Sure Kill") near the 30th street station. On both sides of the bridge, under several hundred layers of paint, was a beautiful, hand forged railing. Many balconies, gates, even old, overgrown fences in disrepair in lesser parts of the city are often hand forged. ![]() Real Wrought Iron
Jim Maunder -
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:34pm
Jim Maunder ![]() Sorry Jim, the only way I
Rich Waugh -
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 2:15pm
Sorry Jim, the only way I know to get true wrought iron is to go salvage an old bridge or building and then reforge everything to size. No on in the US or Canada is making it as far as I know. The UK people are not making it either, they're just reprocessing salvaged stuff. Rich ![]() Forging true wrought iron
Jim Maunder -
Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 11:45am
Jim Maunder ![]() Not true at all, Jim. A
Rich Waugh -
Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:46pm
Not true at all, Jim. A good propane forge will reach forge welding heat for mild steel and this is about the right temperature to work true wrought iron. I forge wrought using my gas forge all the time with no problems. Now, if you have a gas forge that only gets the metal up to an orange heat you will have problems with wrought splitting on you. It should be forged at a yellow heat, near white hot. Keep in mind there are different grades of wrought, from muck bar to the best triple refined. The better it is, the better you can forge it at a lower heat. With muck bar or merchant bar you need a full high yellow heat or a welding heat so that you are constantly re-welding the bar to correct splitting as it happens. After some forging this way the muck bar becomes merchant bar and the merchant bar becomes single-refined, etc. It is fun stuff to work with as it is so soft compared to mild steel and it welds beautifully. Even in a (good) gas forge. Rich |
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What has changed is the
What has changed is the manufacturing process. True wrought iron is made from bloomery iron that is repeatedly forged to make it somewhat more homogeneous. The end result is nearly pure iron with silicious inclusions from the sand used as flux in the smelting process. That's an oversimplification but it is good enough.
Modern mild steel is made in big furnaces where scrap is melted or ore is process or both, and the carbon content and other elements are controlled for the purpose of meeting engineering specifications. The result is a product that can be depended upon to meet certain desired physical properties.
Real wrought iron hasn't been produced as a primary product since about 1950 at the latest. The one or two places in Europe that sell it are re-processing old scrap wrought iron, not smelting new product. There is no "manufacture" of it in the U.S. It simply cannot be made at a competitive price - even the re-processed stuff is priced about five times that of modern structural steel.
For virtually all the processes that blacksmiths do, regular mild steel as produced today is just fine, and in most cases better than true wrought iron.
Rich