SOS!!!!! I need your input

Okay, so I got myself into a major bind...last gallery meeting maybe 1 1/2 months ago we were talking about themes for shows and I was talking about trying to melt plastic onto metal....now I get the invite for January 15th and not only do I need to incorporate something molten onto my
steel but I have to do a demo?????? OMG! What was I thinking....I guess I will have to bring my oxy-acetylene tanks , but an outside demo in January, for the other artist it's no sweat (literally) because he's doing ice sculptures, spraying water onto his steel pieces......

HELP!!!!! What can I do??? I tried melting some plastic and not only did it not want to melt but it smelt pretty toxic....Any suggestions?
What about lampworking glass? Will it stick to the steel??? Or are there any low melt point resins ....what????? I can't be shown up...got to come up with something!!!! HELP ME ARTMETALISTS!!!! SteelyJan38! DUH!


Josjor's picture

Not to sound too obvious,

Not to sound too obvious, but does it HAVE to be plastic?

Molten material on to steel? The first and simplest thing that comes to mind is bronze brazing rod.

I think you'll have a hard time:
A: finding a plastic that won't make a nasty stink when you melt it, and
B: Actually stick to the steel.

Different colored waxes would work, but not be very durable.....though I do envision some kind of Jackson Pollock-ish thing with dripped wax on a steel "canvas."

Neutiquam erro.


Rich Waugh's picture

I agree with Josjor - go

I agree with Josjor - go with brass brazing rod or with wax - either will work dandy for a demo and some of the waxes for craft work are very nearly plastic. One other possibility would be hot melt glue sticks - they're actually thermoplastic that can be melted handily with a propane canister torch and come in a variety of goofy metallic colors as well as clear. See your local craft store.

Rich


SteelyJan38's picture

Thanks Everyone!!!

Saw a video on fused plastic bags by iron, will try to incorporate some steel mesh, the glue sticks sound good,,,,thought of wax but doesn't seem permanent. Also saw a video on microwavable kilns for glass fusing...lots of possibilities out there...still looking!


visitor's picture

Wax

Hi. I have used wax on mild steel in the past(about 17 years ago) and it still looks pretty much like the day it was put on. The easiest way I found was use a colored wax crayon onto a cleaned and heated surface. It only has to be hot enough to melt the wax and you can draw as you would on paper but the crayon melts of course. It's very easy to obtain abstract images but controlling the molten wax to make a "picture" is much harder. Think of it like solder, you can add extra solder to a join but the previous stuff melts as well. There are other techniques as well and the experimentation is good fun. I was doubtful about permanence as well until reading of aboriginal cave paintings in Australia where the "paint" was found to contain wax and carbon dated to about 4000 years old!

Mike


Bob Turan's picture

Plastic on metal

Jan-

I like Rich's idea of the glue sticks. Lots of colors - not much heat needed.

If you want to try other "crafty" ideas, I recall some kits in the hobby shop that produced "stained glass like" window hangings that used colored resin that was placed into a metal art outline, and baked in a low temperature oven. You can probably get just the resin from the manufacturer. So I'd ask in a craft store.

I have done some work with acrylic and polycarbonate sheet, and they can be heated and bent with a heat gun. That might work for the glue sticks as well.

And you might want to try to "weld" some plastic. Harbor Freight has a couple of tools designed to weld thermoplastics. I've been meaning to get one of these just to play with it! Here's a link:
http://www.harborfreight.com/plastic-welding-kit-with-air-motor-and-temperature-adjustment-96712.html

Good luck, and HAVE FUN!!

Bob 2ran


FloridaRobot's picture

I have one of the harbor

I have one of the harbor freight plastic welders and they work very well. It uses super hot air to melt the plastic so there is no burning or noxious fumes. The model referenced above is much better than mine because it doesn't require a compressor. The unit I have needs a compressor.

Also, something I once did accidentally was to cut copper using a plasma cutter. The spray from the copper splattered on some scrap steel I had on the bench and looked pretty cool.

Good luck with the presentation.

Jim


marilyn's picture

A friend had one of those

A friend had one of those kilns and it did fuse small bits of glass. Unless they are changed, they are very small.
Glass enameling is basically melted glass on metal.

marilyn


Bob Turan's picture

More sources for resin

Jan-

Below are some sources worth looking at. Most "craft" resin is a "thermoset" plastic, like epoxy, where you mix the base material with a catalyst, and then it cures into a hard plastic. You can get epoxy "gel goat", the stuff used in fiberglass auto repair (which is pourable), as well as two-part polyester body filler and hardner (which is very stiff) both at auto supply stores.

Here are some other resin links, The last one for boat building supplies:

http://www.resinobsession.com/resin-craft-supplies-c-81.html

http://www.allcraftsupplies.com/c-7240/casting-resin.html

http://www.misterart.com/sculpture/mold-making/casting-resins/environmental-tech-castin-craft-clear-casting-resin.html

http://www.jgreer.com/casting-resin.htm?gclid=CNX1sZHmkaYCFYHb4AodZ0K1ng

I can't wait to see what you come up with!

Bob 2ran


Daedalus's picture

Color on metal?

You don`t really need anything to color or draw on metal except a torch.
Why not bring your OA torch set and some polished metal sheet and just "paint" with heat? The different sized tips will give you different width lines and you can stop the heat patina with a hose or wet rag.Don`t like it,hit it with a scotchbrite pad and start over.
Art folks think this stuff is magic and what`s more magic than fire,water and a sparking grinder?Plenty of heat,light,sparks and drama!
Go for it Jan!

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.


Giusseppe's picture

clear acrylic

get some 1/4 inch clear acrylic sheets at least 12" wide.
take an electric element ( small ring that you would use for a kettle )
preheat metal so that water would sizzle a little
soften area of sheet over element
push metal into heated area
cool suddenly with water
I have made body parts this way that are so convincing that when exhibited, people wondered at the model who had allowed me to mold around her body
have fun
Giusseppe one of a series of figures forged in hot acrylicmy honey: one of a series of figures forged in hot acrylic

Where to bend next ... www.metalgarden.ca


marilyn's picture

Great idea! marilyn

Great idea!

marilyn


johndach's picture

plastic on steel (metal) ideas.......

Douglas and Sturgess in San Francisco and Richmond CA have a plastic called Adaptit that gets clear and workable in very hot water but cools to a very tough, white plastic (sort of similar to the plastic in plastic milk cartons). When hot, it is easily worked with the hands and can be applied to the body with out burning.... Can be colored, glittered, etc. while soft. Call and talk with/ask for Artie as he might have some ideas for you too. Tell him John and Cynthia suggested you give him a call. A great materials resource!!!!

Might consider sealing wax, used to mimic old time closures on written documents.. Also, what about some of the VERY LOW temp melting metals that are available?!?!?!

Good luck. What fun...................

John Dach
john@MLCE.net
web site: http://www.MLCE.net and ctmandalas.com


lin's picture

melting

Jan, I have used a torch to melt enamel powder and chunks of glass (left over from a copper enameling class years ago) to steel. I've had mixed success due to cooling temps. Some of the glass cracked off while some stayed and was lovely. Good fun to play with. I used both oxy torch and a propane torch. Lin


marilyn's picture

There are enamels meant to

There are enamels meant to be used on steel . It's a matter of both the glass and the metal expanding the same. marilyn


visitor's picture

go to hardware store and get

go to hardware store and get liquid pastic used for dipping tool handles such as pliers for cushion grips. I believe 3M makes it.


ScottTheSculptor's picture

walk in oven?

the only way that I can think of to do this is to heat the metal up evenly and to an exact temperature.
That temperature would be specific to the polymer.

once you had the polymer attached there's the problem of keeping it there. The expansion coefficients just don't match.

Only thin, flexible, plastics would survive the expansion difference.

I like the tool-dip idea (flexible, bright, no-heat).

but that's not "melting".

low temp metals don't have much color difference.


lesliereilly's picture

some really awesome ideas

some really awesome ideas here! I, too, cant wait to see/hear what you came up with!