FLARE RATIO & ACELARATOR '??

Blacksmithing

Hi all, I`m making a venturi propane burner forge, and there are two tech details I`m not able to figure out. I want to introduce in a home-made manner, the acelerator concept that ZOELER shows on www.zoellerforge.com/tubeburners.htl
the acelerator with the mig tip screwed at the turned-down-with-a-lathe-end is basic and clear,but the relative positioning of the burner tube over the acelerator I`m not sure how.The latter slides over the acelerator but... any aducated guess? And does the contraption still have the regular reducing T where the tube screws on and the main air stream comes in? What is the meaning (formula) of flare ratio? Thanks for input. nelson.


NELSON's picture

Hi Bill, I`m not sure

Hi Bill, I`m not sure either, but it sounds like you^re on the right track. Hopefully, some more input will disipate any doubts. Thanls! Nelson.


Rich Waugh's picture

Nelson, The common wisdom is

Nelson,

The common wisdom is that the flare should have a 1:12 taper ratio. There are a number of authorities who cite this as an absolute, as though nothing else will work. They are, as is so often the case with absolutes, quite wrong. I'll expand on that a bit:

The purpose of a flare on a burner end is to slow the velocity of the air/gas mixture so that it does not "blow off" the end of the burner and burn in the forge chamber as a free mixture. The objective is to have a controlled flame at the tip of the burner, without having the flame either blow out or burn back up inside the burner tube. To maintain the flame at the right point, the ari/gas mixture must be traveling at just the right velocity; too fast and it blows the flame off the end of the burner, too slow and the flame front burns back up the tube, causing backfires. The optimum point balances the air/gas mix velocity with the flame-front velocity (speed of combustion, or burn rate). A flare at the end of the burner tube does this, but other methods can work as well.

While the taper is stated to be 1:12, a plain cylinder will often do every bit as well as a precisely machined flare, and sometimes better. Why is this? When a larger piece of pipe is slipped over the end of the burner tube, the junction between the two creates a "step" at the point where the pipes overlap. This step creates an eddy current in the flow of the air/gas mixture, slowing its velocity markedly. That eddy allows the flame to remain at the burner end, instead of being blown off. In the case of the highly machined flare, the smooth surface is actually less effective at slowing the velocity than the slightly rougher surface inside a piece of common pipe. The rougher pipe acts to increase turbulent flow, (the Reynolds factor), slowing the velocity.

In the venturi, a low Reynolds factoris important, in order to maintain the velocity necessary to create a pressure differential and draw in the gas. In the burner tube, however, some turbulence is desireable, as it gives the propane and air a better chance to mix thoroughly, in the hopes of achieving a perfect stoichiometric mixture that yields the highest Btu output and most nearly neutral flame characteristics. So, polish the redlukcer venturi, but leave the burner tube rough inside. Some people have even used a spiral spring inside the burner tube to increase turbulence, or shoved some rolled wire mesh down the tube. The necessity for such measures can be reduced by having a burner tube of sufficient length. For a 3/4" pipe venturi burner, the minimum length for the burner tube should be nine inches (9"). Any less and the fuel and air don't get thoroughly mixed. On the other hand, if the tube is way too long, the velocity can be slowed so much by turbulence that backfires are inevitable. 9-1/2" to 11" seems to be about right.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.

Rich


NELSON's picture

Rich, you`ve explained quite

Rich, you`ve explained quite well the physics behind a venturi gas burner.After researching some,I realize that in my case,there`s no need for such a sofisticated device as an accelerator and other fancy tech features,considering the low gas price here.Neverthess, I cannot help considering basic improvements over a basic design, as possible. For instance, the spring idea I like. Obviously reducing the speed some before the air-gas mix reaches the combustion end, increases burner performance. Do you think a expansion chamber half way the burn tube may slow down the flow too much? Probably, would depend on how much expansion, or how much texture, for the speed reduction principle would apply anyway! It just crossed my mind, most venturi designs use a T-reduction. What about using a Y-reduction? The initial flow speed at the venturi spot should be higher for Y than for a T due to the angle, so if I start off with a little higher speed then slowing down the flow for mixing won`t be a concern...Just thought too,that the little air speed gained may canceled out with the little reduction of the gas speed at that little turn of the Y (just things to wonder huh!).Again, this may be just another detail NOT TO WORRY ABOUT ? I do have a whole bunch of refractory bricks, and wonder if it would not be good to have a little ineficiency due to some heat absorption by the bricks, but the convinience of getting a piece hot faster with an increase in gas flow from idling heat ???Hope some of my assumptions aren`t way off, but the could. Nelson.


Rich Waugh's picture

Nelson, There are so many

Nelson,

There are so many variables in any given burner design that you could spend countless hours experimenting. You might come up with something new that works better.

 One reason that some people use the reducing tee for the venturi is that certain tees have a nearly perfect taper where they change size, resulting in a more efficient Bernoulli (venturi) effect. The Ward brand reducing tee is one that is very good, while most of the cheap Chinese and Thai tees that I've seen had an almost hemispherical reduction step, or a very short ramp, either of which is far less efficient than the longer ramp of the Ward tees. I get my Ward tees, and a number of other burner parts, from Larry Zoeller, by the way.  Good guy to do business with.

I'm dubious about the success of using a "Y" instead of the tee, as they don't have the right configuration to create a good venturi.  The venturi area is the place where you do want everything to be shiny and smooth, and the gases traveling quickly and with little turbulence.  Taking a few minutes with a die grinder and shining up the ramp in your reducing tee is one way to improve the efficiency of the burner.

Including a mixing chamber in the burner tube is not a new idea, and it is one that has some real merit.  You 'll probably want to bring the tube back down to the original diameter after the mixing chamber, to get the gas flow to the right speed for proper flame control.

Keep in mind, too, that backpressure in the forge chamber itself has an effect on burner performance.  Too little backpressure and the burner is running too quickly and may not retain the flame at its end, as well as running too lean due to inducing too much air.  Too much backpressure and the burner is choked, just as if you restrict the intake side of the burner.  That can cause backfires and too rich a mixture.

Forge and burner design are an art as much as a science.  It takes a lot of experimentation andsome good luck to end up with a forge that works really well, particularly when you're using venturi burners.  With blown burners youcan get away with a lot more errors in design, since you can adjust both the air and gas to overcome problems.  I'm about to have to build a new forge for the shop and it will most likely be a blown burner design, because I need to have a lot of featuers in the forge that will make it impossible to have just one burner design that will work with all the different configurations that the forge will be capable of.  Blown burners will solve that issue easily and simply.  The only drawback of blown burners is that they don't readily lend themselves to the use of an "idle" circuit to conserve fuel.  Our fuel here is not cheap, so that is a consideration I'm trying to work out a way around.


NELSON's picture

Rich I realize there are so

Rich I realize there are so many variables, and combinations of them that make the issue rather interesting, and worthwhile trying one own`s contraption to see how it works. I do have a nice fan, but having read some of the drawbacks, seems appropiate to try the venturi type, again this is a matter of personal preference. All that said, I will start my experiment out, based on those basic principles you mentioned as well as a bunch more not to overlook. I`ll post the ongoing task and hope that when I light it up, the last step will be worth showing too.
Rich, thanks you for your highly tech input. Nelson.