Absolutey. There are many many intellectual property concerns for an artist -- in the modern age, many of them are similarly treated and/or addressed in the Western world.

However, many netizens (as well as old-time blacksmiths, and artisans of all crafts) foster an open culture. Simply by promoting their own creations, art evolves (like jazz, hip-hop, etc). See the archivees of many fine pre-internet publications, at your local library or even metal arts friends. Research how ALA (the American Library Association) has been dealing with the US Patriot Act and DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act), to learn more there.

Look to sites like iForgeIron, NWBA, and its various chapters, as well as personal sites by many (ranging from amateur through masters) who offer freely, into the public domain, both designs (copyrightable) and processes (potentially patentable). The internet is chock full of "Open Culture", and is in large part founded upon it... check out wikipedia.org (and wikiquotes, wikimapia, etc) and archive.org (both their wayback machine and their audio and video archives) for some fine examples that we're lucky enough to be able to enjoy.

Great topic -- there's a LOT to it. What in particular interests you, aside from my rant? :)

BenB
ben [at] nw-arts [dot] com
BenB's Blog

No worry about sharing ideas and posting pictures, this site is about sharing. If you want to make what I make go ahead, maybe you can make some money off of it. Let me know if you figure out an easy way okay.

warren

As an artist, what I do is the result of my unique life experiences, and the way my particular brain processes the world.
If given the exact same materials, and told to make a piece about the same thing, no 2 artists will produce the same piece.

"Ideas" are pretty worthless unless you turn em into something.

The concept of "owning" an idea is repugnant to me.

If somebody tried to somehow incorporate one of my sculptures into the design for an "antique" lamp made in china by the thousand- well, it would have so little relationship to what I do as to be laughable.

That said, years ago I did have several of my designs, production pieces for candlesticks mostly, knocked off. Legally, there was nothing I could do, as art and craft pieces are not patentable, and they changed enough small details as to avoid any copyright issues as well.

To any trained eye, the difference between my originals (cast gray iron, with a powdercoat finish) and their copies (bent coat hangers spray painted from a can) was obvious, and my pieces continued to sell for approximately 5 times the retail price of the Tijuana knockoffs- but they sold 1000 per store to Bed Bath and Beyond, while I sold 2 pairs to the high end gallery.

I stopped doing the piece, because I felt the idea had been diluted enough that it no longer interested me.
Since then, I have seen variations on my idea (and it was only my idea briefly- I dont believe in some godlike form of originality- I worked off the visuals in my environment, just like everybody else, changed a few things, and was a part of a much longer chain)
made in Haiti, several african countries, the phillipines, indonesia, thailand, mexico, and god knows where else.
I consider the theft of my idea, my own personal foreign aid program to third world countries- think of all the poor people who ate as a result of making those candlesticks....

Anyway, as Satchel Paige used to say, "dont look back- they might be gaining on you".

I'm pretty much in agreement with Ries on this one. You can't really own an "idea", at least in practical terms. Once somebody else sees it, it is out there and available to all. There are some limits. though.

Nobody likes to see his hard work copied, particularly for profit. If the rip-off is exact enough, and it cost you money out of your pocket by costing you the job, then I advocate suing the thief. It will probably cost you more to go after them than you'll ever realize in damage awards, but copyright thieves need to be pursued if any of us are to have any security at all. This applies in the case of design work that is truly copied and then sold, not just taking an idea and working with it.

That said, anybody can take your idea, modify it, do it differently and market it. That's legal. You just have to do it better than they do, or market it better to stay ahead of the game, if you want to keep on selling the same old idea. I prefer to move on to a new idea. I bore easily.

I will (jestingly) say that Ries had just one word in his post that was less than completely correct. Ries said, "...my particular mind..." and it should really have read "my peculiar mind" to be accurate. (grin) Ries comes up with some truly amazing ideas and designs that I wish I had thought of. They make me think of new ways of looking at things, and from that stems new ideas of my own.

I don't feel that I am in competition with anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter. I am only in competition with myself, trying to outdo myself with each new piece or idea. If I post a picture of a piece here or elsewhere, I don;t worry that someone will steal my idea or my design. They may see something they like and take a shot at copying it, and that's okay. If they try to take credit for my work, that's NOT okay. That's plagiarism, any way you look at it, and only small-minded people do that. I don;t really have either the time or the energy to waste on small people. I have too many new ideas I want to pursue to waste my life looking back at old stuff.

To steal is to steal.In art history there are schools. Someone develops something new and interesting and a school follows. Someone in that school may be more proficient, developing the new 'whatever' to a higher level.Is that person a thief? Yes!Is he a lesser artist? No!Character and talent are two distinct entities. Mimicry is a one of nature's own techniques for survival and, in with humans, often taken as a compliment.Animals are known to steal too.I've seen "art" done by monkeys and it looked pleasing enough. I like what artisans do, but I love original expression by beings with a soul.That, to me, is art. Someone who is good at something is commonly called an artist. However someone who is good at something and creates something original is a rarity. We are all artisans and artist with originality to some degree.To share technique is noble.To make things for others to enjoy is rewarding.To make something that is a purely original expression is to be on a higher plane. How it is accepted is irrelevant to its oneness.When I look at an original piece of art, I see something new every time I look at it. When I look at that refined copy-cat stuff, I see the same old shit every time.
Frank

I will take "peculiar" as a compliment.

I am a bit disturbed by Frank's "to steal is to steal".

Let us say that some particular genius got the idea to draw a picture of a nude female form.
I cant imagine how any male would get that idea, but somehow, somewhere, somebody was the first to do this.

Does that mean that every single subsequent depiction of a female nude, of which there have been tens of millions by now, is "stealing" his idea?

Or what about the first guy (there must have been a first guy, kinda like Arlo Guthries song about the last guy) to use oil paint to paint a still life of fruit?

Should we lock up Ruebens, and Van Dyck, Mattisse, Van Gogh, Picasso, and the thousands of other thieves?

Sorry, I aint buying it.

The world exists, and anybody can see it, and use anything they see as inspiration for art.

If we allow people to own the "idea" of a painting or sculpture, whats next- ownership of words? Yeah, I know, Bill Gates is already trying to do that.

If what you are making is a product, like the lamps in the first post- well thats a bit different from art- and there is a legal framework for protecting product design.
Personally, I have big issues with the current state of patent and copyright law- I think that both have been extended way beyond where the founding fathers thought they should be, and way beyond sense, to profit a few huge corporations.
Disney lawyers wrote much of current copyright law.

I think the world would be a better place with more copying, rather than less.

And I know its a cyber-hippie cliche, but I really believe that information wants to be free.

No, I'm not afraid, because I understand that you cannot copyright an idea - only the form and expression of an idea.

If you have design you wish to protect, you can formally register it (at a cost).

In any case you still have to become aware of an infringement in order to do anything about it. Even then, could you prove that the other person did not independently produce something like your work? I have seen some remarkable coincidences that I know occured this way.

A copyright, or even a patent, is only as good as your ability to pay lawyers to protect it.

Now if you really have invented the next big thing- the pet feeder that loads itself, the automatic toilet paper dispenser, or the injectible I-Pod speaker, maybe you really have to worry about all that patent, and lawyer, and big business stuff.

But realistically, in the small craft object/ artwork/ furniture and knicknack market, I think its a bit grandiose to talk about "theft" and "original creative ideas".

If you are doing realistic figurative sculpture, for example, then I dont see how there can be any discussion of stolen ideas- there is nothing you can possibly do, in terms of style, pose, or materials, that somebody else hasnt done, probably better. So you need to focus on expressing yourself, and your ideas, the best you can, and not waste time comparing yourself to others, before or after.

In terms of small design objects, again, its hard to claim complete originality- I cant think of any craftsman of candlesticks, or tables, or groovy chairs, from the last 30 years, who could say their work was completely original, and unique. And I have seen a lot of it- for 10 years or so, I did the ACC wholesale shows, and would walk all 1200 booths, of the best in the country, looking at work. I have subscribed to Sculpture, Ornament, American Craft, Metropolis, Art in America, Architectural Record, and many more art, design, industrial design, and architecture magazines. I always check out the groovy stores and galleries whereever I go. I have a quite substantial library about the history of crafts, design, and furniture and chairs in particular.
In other words, I study.

And I have seen a hundred architects, and sculptors, and metal craftsmen make essentially the same simple table, or folded steel shaped object, and all claim the utmost orginality and uniqueness- and usually, its only their ignorance of history and contemporary commerce that would allow them to dream like that.

We are all, as the man said, standing on the shoulders of those who came before us.

Do the best job you can, have integrity and honesty in your work,and, in selling your work, tell your story- and people will sense this.

Getting obsessed with losers who copy what they see just brings you down, and gives them more energy- its a waste of time. I have been copied, a lot- and, if the work is any good, I take it as a compliment- and if it isnt, well, the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

There is nothing new in art and expression, only the re-thinking of an idea in ones own terms. I understand that people steal, I steal; but in the form of studing an aproach for a piece. I'm lucky, my day job involves the restoration of some great art; restoring Rodan's, Caldor's, Marshall Fredrick's statues, to just name a few. You can't help but pick up on stuff when working on pieces like that. So If that is stealing, I'm the "Cat-Burgler". Right now I'm working on a great project that is opening me up to start some larger pieces. But they're my pieces. Because, in the end it's my voice that leads the work.
Don T.

Copper Restoration Project

I'm getting a Zen feel from many of these posts. 'Dependant Origination' seems to surface in more than just a few posts.I wonder if Buddha ever thought about parallel worlds.Thank you everyone for making me think about stuff.
Ohmmmmmmm, eh?
Frank