Pumpkin? in repousse you say?

Janice Fowler - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:24pm

Yes, that is what I said. I loved the tomatoes on the vine that 'walker' did and since I have been itching to try some repousse...I thought maybe a pumpkin would be a sort of easy shape to work with. And it was...however, I don't really know what I'm doing! lol

I have some black pitch (I have since learned I should go red - I'm told once I do I'll never go back...*wink*) Anyway, black is what I have and what I used. I also only have a tiny little set of chasing tools to use as my punches.

So I began with 24 ga sheet (have no idea if that is a typical size) of copper and I worked freehand - no drawing. I figured that would be less stressful, no lines to keep to! I started on the front and chased some lines in the shape of a pumpkin, roughly a circle, and a stem. Then I flipped it (how hard was THAT to get it out of the pitch and semi-cleaned off!) and worked the inside area of the pumpkin to puff it out. Also hit the stem a bit. Then I flipped it back over (getting harder all the time to pry it loose) and put some lines in for the segments/veins of the gourd. Then back over one more time to sort of chase into the sides of the veins to puff them back out nicely. (or so I hoped!) I also put a leaf sort of texture/thing near the stem.

Then I plucked it out of the much again and used a torch to melt a bit of the pitch off, except I didn't pay attention and I caught it on fire (on the copper piece) which baked the pitch on pretty well.

*sigh*

So then I scrubbed it off a bit, and well, it does look like a pumpkin...but I have such a long way to go!

Any hints? Help? (I'll post the photo tonight when I'm home)

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I look forward to seeing

Fred Zweig - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:17pm

I look forward to seeing your images of the pumpkin. The black pitch is harder to work with and it is possible to do just fine with it. I recommend pitch from Northwest Pitchworks.

Something like a pumpin is a good subject matter to do in repousse since the lines are simple and there is plenty of broad space in the skin. It is possible to do much work with wooden embossing like tools that will push out large volumes of metal at once without overstressing it. I use the old axiom..."If you don't want it there... don't put it there.

Many folks tend to use too small a tool to push out the metal and have to spend extra time smoothing it out. Even at the small scale in which I work, I try to use the approptiate sized tool for the task.

One word of caution.... Repousse and chasing is very addictive and can lead to dependancy on more tools and metal.

Fred Zweig
Metalsmith

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Thanks Fred!

Janice Fowler - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:41pm

I'm on a bit of a buying hold.....but I figure soon I'll be buying or repurposing some tools to use for repoussse. Its a very intriguing technique, and now having tried it once (well actually twice) I have a renewed respect for others who do it so well!

~Janice

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janice don't buy anything,

Gene Olson - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:58pm

janice don't buy anything, yet.

the basic tools are incredibly easy to make.
most of them are quite dull.
old chisels, punches work great, reground.

they are all about pushing metal around.

They vary mainly in scale.

smooth transitions in surface help.

Generaly start with big ones to rough in a shape and then work progressively smaller towards detail.

It's basic Engineering Physics the sharper the curvature, the more the stress is focused at that point. Sounds like a weird statement, but a practial application would be if you make a sharp bend in a sheet and then do lots of pounding and forming out in the middle of the sheet, you go to install the thing and find that there is a hairline crack in part of that original bend.

dang, you never touched that. . .

or did you?

every time you hit the sheet, part of the blow went down where you wanted it (we hope) and part of it propagated out in all directions. When it hit the corner, it got caught, it vibrated and work hardened the corner and sent a tiny portion on around the bend. And you hit it, again, and agin and aggggh , finally the bend gets so tense it has a breakdown.

Don't put sharp bends in till you have to or as final details in a finished section.

Gene Olson
Sculptor
Elk River, MN

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Gene, Thanks for your

Rich Waugh - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:49pm

Gene,

Thanks for your comment there. That was one of the clearest, most concise explanations of stress risers and their origins and behavior that I've ever read. With your permission, I'll be passing that along to others.

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Fire away Rich, It was the

Gene Olson - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:11pm

Fire away Rich,

It was the main thing I got out of calculus (decades ago, so I am a "bit rusty" .)
I looked at the formulas and every time there was a sharp change in the direction at some spot, most anything you did anywhere else seemed to make that corner, more knotted.

Gene Olson
Sculptor
Elk River, MN

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Hey Gene -

Janice Fowler - Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 11:50am

Thanks for the info. I will take that with me into future attempts. Its all a bit over my head right now sort of, but as I get more hands on it will all begin to make more sense, especially when I have little nuggets like this tucked away in my mind. (and yes, I hope I can retrieve them when it comes time!)

~Janice

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Gene, You forgot to mention

warren - Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 6:28pm

Gene,
You forgot to mention that you have a very pretty set of repousee and chasing tools for sale via your website.
I still might buy a set sometime. I checked them over at the shindig when you were not looking. Some I would like to have.
warren
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metal_recipes/

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tools

Gene Olson - Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 11:05pm

Thanks Warren,

but I need to get out there and make some more.
I sold the last full set just before I took off for DC.

I use oil hardening tool steel.
I suppose I should be making hammers too with the ton or so of 1045 in the trailer.

ah projects, art?, happyness, home improvement, . . .
so many choices. . .

Gene Olson
Sculptor
Elk River, MN

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heat it up

warren - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 7:01pm

Janice,
I hope you mean 24 ounce and not 24 gage copper sheet. Or maybe you are meaning .024 inch. (16 ounce) Because 24 gage is very thin material to work with.
On your pitch, since I have used the black many times, to remove the piece put some heat on it. If you have a small torch dance the flame around until it is loose. Now usually you have to anneal (or at least it makes things easier) every time you remove from the pitch. So you have this pitch all over your copper sheet and I just burn it off. Let it catch on fire or whatever until your copper has been red and anneal, watch out for the drips they will melt skin. The pitch will now be an ash so throw the copper sheet in your quench tank and the ash will float away. I also like to pickle each time so it is easier to see the shape of the copper sheet. Where ever you are doing the burning off of the pitch make sure you have some ventilation (the northwest green pitch smells really good when burning.............pine sap). Also what I find helps is when you bring the piece of copper from the pitch, I borrowed a spatula from the kitchen and it works pretty good to swipe off the pitch.

warren
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metal_recipes/

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yep 24 gauge

Janice Fowler - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:38pm

And I thought I was doing good to start a bit thin...and then I thought that it was hard to work with!! oy. I guess it just takes a lot of practice. Like most things. I'll be posting the pumpkin in just a sec.

I did use a torch to heat to loosen up the pitch to remove the piece...I think I need to heat a tiny bit more. I also added some ws to the pitch as it was really hard and brittle...I read somewhere to add linseed oil or wax to get a consistency you like. Maybe I needed to burn the pitch off more from the back of my piece...what I ended up with was so hard baked on it was a nightmare.

Thanks for your feedback! I'll go back to the drawing board tomorrow night. I work small - jewelry scale -- what gauge would be typical??

~Janice

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repousse

walker - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:01pm

Hey Janice,

Can't wait to see your picture! Once thing that I've stared doing is rubbing a thin layer of tallow on the copper before setting it in the pitch. With just a little bit of heat (heat gun) it comes right out of the pitch. I've also heard that you can coat it with chapstick also. I was burning the remaining pitch off of the copper with a torch but because I'm working out of my garage, it created tooooo much smoke, so I now heat it up a little, pry it out of the pitch and then drop in a a small container with acetone and it just melts away after a couple of minutes.

And I have to agree......repousse is addictive!

Walker

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working copper

visitor - Wednesday, May 7, 2008 - 4:08pm

Janice,

caught your Oct 23 '07 conversation about working copper sheet on a pitch backing and having problems pulling it looose. I have worked copper for a few years and find using a soft wood like cedar as a backing ok. also used a lead slab made from old car wheel weights. Most of my work is three dimentional and I use a method called "stake repousse"
I learned this from a 90 yr old guy in Boise Id. named Hahum Hersom. He still gives classes on hammering technigues. remember, every time you "move" copper, that is fold punch or hammer, you harden the copper and can cause it to crack. if you anneal the copper before you rework an area you can prevent this.

Steve Held
Copper artist

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