Serious Question about responsibility!

I just had a client and her decorator call me about a railing I did 3years ago. the paint is chipping and there is some rust spots.They were a bit condescending (which makes my hackles go up) .....Of course I said I would take care of it. No financial reimbursment was discussed.
It's never happened before....maybe the paint wasn't dry enough???? whatever. Am I responsible for railings installed that long ago? Do I now need to make a stipulation when I build outdoor railings. Help! My peers and mentors!!!! Janet R.


Frank Castiglione's picture

Warranty

Hi Janet,
If you did not issue a written warranty then there is no obligation on your part.I would suggest that you give your clients a maintenance schedule ie. paint the damned thing once in a while.If they require something that requires no maintenance then they should pay for stainless.
Frank


B.J. Severtson's picture

warrantty

Janet
You need to provide your customers with your warranty statement at point of sale. Creating a service contract is a clever way to get paid for a regular inspection and also create a situation where the customer violates the warranty agreement and there by holds you harmless. Get over there asap hopefully when the decorator isn't there. The decorator is not your customer. Take your camera. You can wave the $50.00 service call this time. But by all means give them a receipt showing it waived. It also wouldn't hurt if this receipt contained a warranty statement. Such as "our product is quaranteed against defects in materials and craftsmanship for a period of one year from purchase."
You can also make your warranty a feature of your product.
Extended warranty products in some industries are big business. After the sale add-ons. 2 cents Brad


Frank Castiglione's picture

Hot

Hi Janet,
I type with two fingers yet there are moments when I'm typing faster than I think. This last post is an example.Good thing there were plenty of other well thought out responses to your problem.
Frank


Rob Sigafoos's picture

Janet- What is the warranty

Janet-
What is the warranty on the paint you used? I think that the manufacturer bears some (most?) responsibility for the finish failure, assuming you didn't use it "off label". That would be my first call.
Rob


Nic East's picture

Paint Failure

Sometimes I wonder at the supposed intelligece of many decorators. As a maker of one-of-a-kind art, your personal obligation is to select the most durable materials and to orchestrate them into a pleasing artifact for the client/patron. That said, the formal guarantees and warrantees from the manufacturers apply to the materials used and your warrantee applies only to the application and fabrication.

As noted above by others, you need to provide a warrantee statement and maintenance schedule in the future, but you are definitely not to blame for the work of passersby or Mother Nature. The Client and Designer should be aware that these items, if installed outside, are subject to weathering, which includes but is not limited to UV radiation, mildew, rust from water and humidity, vandalism and accidental contact with the neighbor's car or child's toys.

You cannot stand guard over all your client's stuff, else you would have become a security agency rather than an artist in metal.

Just a thought or two . . .

Nic East, Jim Thorpe, PA USA
Creativity begins with a novel thought.


Bill Roberts's picture

OUCH.......sorry to hear

OUCH.......sorry to hear this. There is no doubt about it.....you need to tell folks that you make exterior iron work that there is a maintenance issue that they need to be aware of. This way there are no surprises....you can point out any and all "potential"water traps that need to be observed for the first signs of rust bloom. And then tell them either how to deal with it .....or sell them a maintenance plan(which sux, I wouldn't want to do it)

To be honest.........3 years isn't very good. Chipping paint sounds like it might have been to thick, or the prep work wasn't adequate......the prep work is vital to the quality and longevity of a painted finish. I have a few questions.....Did you sandblast?......what type of primer did you use? Acid etching primer?...and what type of top coat?

As a general rule...anything that has a lot of "water traps" . Those areas need to be addressed........I usually flood them with the primer, after the sandblast. Meaning I take a lil brush and load it with the acid etch primer and cram it down in the lil "innies"....so that I'm flooding that potential water trap. I then take the same brush and quickly dab up the primer that oozes out of the cracks and cranny's.
Then when I'm through spraying the entire rail/whatever with the primer and let it set in prep for the top coat.....I get ready to do the same "flooding of the water traps" with the top coat. Paying even more attention to the excess that oozes out.......so that it isn't left to pool up anywhere. Then just finish spraying the top coat..........viola.

Then....there is always the "hot dipped" galvanizing approach. budget usually comes into the "options" equation. :)

Really sux that you have to deal with this......it's the call we ALL dread. Your not alone.
Bill


eligius1427's picture

Hi Janet, sorry for the

Hi Janet, sorry for the frustrating news. Was the rail indoors or out? If it was outside and the metal work has overlaps then there is a good chance it would rust in spots no matter what unless it gets galvanized first. If it was cleaned before painting, it would really surprise me if the rail is indoors unless it got scratched and something spilled on it. The climate control for most houses will prevent rust from occurring usually. I would definitely talk with the client without the designer first. I have heard that condescending tone from designers before and I agree it's hard to keep your cool. I personally have found that designers often times make a lot more "noise" about a problem then the client had intended and sometimes even ask for the wrong fix. They may just want a touch up and the knowledge on how to maintain the rail. I usually tell clients that unless the piece gets hot dipped galvanizing, there is at least a small chance that it will start rusting in spots. I also offer to supply them with a can of touch up paint, or as BJ mentioned, I inform them I'd be happy to come back and touch up the rail periodically for a charge. Nine times out of ten they take the can of touch up paint and that's that.

Let us know how you end up solving the problem in case we run into the same thing.

Jake


Rick Crawford's picture

what a pain in the @*$#$

The woman is acting condescending in order to get you to pay for something that is not your fault. It usually works (at least it works on me most of the time.)

Tell her that this is just too long to call it a warranty repair and if she wanted a maintenance contract she should have paid for it. Then have one ready for her to sign.

My 2¢ worth.

Rick Crawford at Smoky Forge


visitor's picture

Hi Janet: sorry to hear what

Hi Janet: sorry to hear what happened,but in my opinion if there`s nothing stated as warranty on your work contract, then it seems more an ethical than a legal issue.Namely,it`ll be up to you who assumes the costs for repairs.Now, if they payed you that job as a top quality work, then you may consider covering the bills. However, if the pay you got wasn`t high enough to have considered high tech products and excellent craftmanship, then after three years of moisture,UV light,thermal expansion,and some salty sweat on, no doubt some corrosion may start to show up. As artists we`re always concern about our reputation. Thin line easily crossed.Another consideration could be a "we both loose a bit" type of deal whereas you and the client split the bill for the maintenance work.Some expert guys here could give their view of what might`ve happened if you posted some pics of the rail. Good luck on that. nelson.


Paula's picture

How well have they taken

How well have they taken care of it????? That's the issue here. I don't care if you powder coat something, if your careless around a painted object...it's going to chip...HELLO!

I would look at it and discuss with them what it will cost for you to repaint it.... see what they say... when i get a project i try to remember to tell people that steel needs to be maintained... they need to look at it at LEAST once a year and see if there is any damage, and if so, this is how THEY need to take care of it...

Just my two cents, hope it helps a little
Paula
Guthrie, MN


joybug's picture

Serious Question About Responsibility

Janet
I've encountered several different scenarious over the years. With it being three years, your client had a responsibility to let you know earlier than they did. This problem probably started long before they contacted you. The other comments suggested a warranty statement. I always do custom work with a letter of agreement. This is the place, I believe for you to inject a warranty statement. My suggestion is (since it seems they were a bit nasty anyway) to write up the cost for repairing it and give them a 50% discount off....or offer to do it for your cost. It's too difficult to extend your precious resources without at least recovering your cost.
Good luck & ignore their 'tude...you're in control fellow artist.
Paige


SteelyJan's picture

Thanks Everyone....

I guess I never had a problem before. I have my first gate project upstate in really harsh conditions and those clients never called me for maintainence??? I will suck it up this time and take care of the issue..it's only two panels in the front of their house I'll post a picture. i will check the back as a year later I did the back of their house. For the future.....I will have a maintainence stipulation. We learn everyday!!!! janet R.


gillis's picture

Hi Janet

 Here's my latest gate. For all you gate makers,what do you think of it?    gillislatest gate: Here's my latest gate. For all you gate makers,what do you think of it? gillisAbout learning everyday Janet, you're ablolutly right. What kind of paint did you used? I'm asking because I have just installed my latest gate and the client didn't want to pay for powder coating. So I used a rust proof paint on it but it's not all that effective.

Gillis


visitor's picture

maintenance of ironwork

lots of good ideas to head off this problem at the pass,
and in the future.

this is the level of discussion that keeps me coming to
this board daily.

charley