 ArtMetalsocial networking for the metal arts |
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AN ARTIST'S SIGNATURE...UP-DATE!!!
Jamie Santellano -
Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 11:50pm
Today I received a phone call from someone who had placed an order for a ring from me a couple of weeks ago. Monday night they finally picked it up from me. This ring was made for someone as a gift, and on the inside they wanted me to engrave the name of the person and the husband with the number of years they had been married. I did as asked, and then below the names as always I signed my name, the year, and 925 for sterling silver. I NEVER let anything leave my studio without my signature. Anyway, when they called me this afternoon they said they didn't want my name in the ring. They wanted to bring it back to me so that I could take it out...I have never been asked to take out my name before on anything I've ever made. I thought that was a bit strange...after all when an artist is done with their work one of the most important parts is the signature, or so I thought. Since, I don't let anything leave my studio without a Signature I called them back and said I sign everything I make, and that I could relocate my signature to the bottom of the ring, but I would not let it go without. After I got off the phone with them, I kind of felt uncomfortable with the whole thing...why would you ask an artist to make something that is completely handmade, and then say to them to not sign their work??? I recently drew up an Ordering Policy to go with my Order forms, and thought that maybe this is something I should disclose in the case of Authenticity. What would you do if you were in this position??? I'm willing to give them their money back on the piece, and take back the ring, buff out the other names and just sell it to someone who can appreciate the fact that this is made by hand and not stamped out and mass-produced. Where do you draw the line as an Artist to protect your work? I guess I'm seeing from the prospective of if there's no sig. then it could have been made by anyone...maybe I'm overreacting, but I don't think so. Any of your input would be great...help! Cheers, Jamie Thanks to all of you and your advice. So to start, I received a commission piece last weekend from a client I met at the Pagan Pride Day Festival in September. Anyway, he wants me to create a piece for him that he will be using in ritual. I e-mailed him about my signature on his piece, and he hadn't really gave it much thought until now. Because of ritual he is working with energies, and feels my signature is very personal to me and is afraid my energies would be a part of that piece. So, he said he would let me know if this could be a problem for him...he feels that my sig. is a very important part of the piece, but for his belief system may not be good. He did mention my initials being a better way to go. Anyhow, I guess the crazy-ness is in all shapes and sizes. Cheers!  Thanks Jake, I think you hit
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:27am
Thanks Jake, I think you hit right on. I spoke to someone last night that's very close to me about the situation, and he said basically the same thing you did. He's a Jewelry designer and has been working at the business for 32+ years, and the Company that he works for down in Hollywood never lets anything go without the name of the Co., or the initials of the Co. They recently made some wedding rings for a well-known singer and her other half, and he said they were going to have the initials of the Co. on the ring. I guess it's time to get more business like and have more things put in writing to avoid these weird happenings. Like you said, most people ask the Artist 'cause they want it from the Artist, and signed by the Artist... Cheers, Jamie Santellano » reply  Strange that this happened
QuiQue -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 6:13am
Strange that this happened Jamie. Seems to me that there is ego involved on all sides. Not to say that you shouldn't sign your art. I believe it adds value and uniqueness to the art you are producing. Is it possible the signature can actually be misinterpreted as being part of the married couple? I would suggest that you tell the client you will move or remove your signature if they really want that to happen, but that you will have to charge an extra fee for the removal. I hear what you are saying, and I do believe that most clients will be honored to have your signature on the art you make for them. However, people can be strange, and maybe this client just doesn't want to share you with their partner. Humans can be very strange sometimes. » reply Well Hello! Haven't heard
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:39am
Well Hello! Haven't heard from you in a long time! Thanks for the advice... I've come to the conclusion ego or not I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I like the sound of the extra charge on the removal, or in this case relocating. Like I posted before, I had not run into this problem before, and never thought this would be an issue. When I first started making jewelry I felt weird about signing it, but as time has moved on I now see the importance of it, as well as keeping good historical records of pieces made. Many who have requested me to make jewelry for them say "make sure you sign it," so now it's automatic. Thanks the advice! I will take it to heart... Cheers, Jamie Santellano » reply  signature
lin -
Friday, November 21, 2008 - 10:30am
Jamie, I can appreciate putting your signature on the piece and all the good reasons for doing it. That said, as much as it bugs me sometimes, the client needs to be happy with with piece. Even if you refund their money, if they are unhappy, they are going to talk about it and you don't need the negative advertising about your work. Try to work it out so you are both comfortable with the result, whether by moving the signature or using initials. Giving in may make us grind our teeth but be better for our business in the long run. Lin » reply Thanks Lin....the Customer
Jamie Santellano -
Friday, November 21, 2008 - 10:53am
Thanks Lin....the Customer is my Uncle, and I have made him the same ring for someone else, and he never complained. I think I'm done at this point with taking on more commissioned items...If I decide to take on anymore the customer will have to go through an interview process and sign documents to my policy, so that there is no confusion. I want to spend more time making the pieces I want to make, and creating from my heart rather than doing what someone else wishes. That was the dream when I first started, so that's what I'm returning to. =D Cheers, Jamie Santellano » reply  Making Contact
Spider 52 -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 6:57am
Hi Jamie, » reply Hello MIchael, Nice to hear
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:57am
Hello MIchael, Nice to hear from you...thanks for commenting on this weird happening. I'm going to be adding the signature of authenticity to my policy... It just seems weird to me 'cause this is not the first ring I've made for them, and I did the same thing: a couples name, and then mine. Anyway, thanks again! Cheers, Jamie Santellano » reply  Hmmmmm.....tricky one,
PeterG -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 7:14am
Hmmmmm.....tricky one, although I suspect QuiQue is right and having 3 names on the ring may be putting them off. Perhaps an alternative is to have a symbol for your business rather than your name. At the end of the day you have to do what you feel comfortable with. If you feel that signing your name on ALL of your work is part of the deal then stick to it. It is a business transaction and BOTH parties have to be happy before it proceeds. Personally I would be inclined to inform clients that all work is signed unless specifically otherwise requested. Peter PS.... If traumatised by the situation, spend part of the proceeds on a bottle of wine and relax for the afternoon while contemplating lifes quirks and the wonderful weirdness of our customers. » reply  It's your call...
SteelyJan -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 8:50am
For years I never signed my work....now I am making the effort to sign my pieces including my architectural work . Sometimes with furniture it's a bit harder. » reply  US law states that if you
Fred Zweig -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:00am
US law states that if you place a mark of quality on a piece of jewelry, ie Sterling or 14K. It MUST be accompanied by the maker's mark. That way if it does not meet the quality standard the maker can be prosecuted. Fred Fred Zweig » reply So in that case it actually
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:00am
So in that case it actually protects the customer...great addition! Thanks Fred! Jamie Santellano » reply Thanks for your input, but
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:15am
Thanks for your input, but it has nothing to with someone steeling the idea...that can always happen...if I was worried about that then I wouldn't be creating anything. It's more about principle, and conducting business to the terms that I had dreamed of when I first started selling my work, it's about Authenticity. That same ring could have been produced from the jewelery store down the street, and probably for half the price and twenty to choose from, but they choose to have me make the ring...this is not the first ring they had me make for them as well. Thanks anyway... Jamie Santellano » reply Your idea of a symbol is
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:06am
Your idea of a symbol is something I've been working towards...just haven't finalized it. Thanks for the advice, and the bottle of wine sounds great! Cheers, Jamie Santellano » reply Jamie, I would highly
Fred Zweig -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 2:50pm
Jamie, I would highly recommend designing a logo(maker"s mark) and then have a steel stamp made. This allows it's use with small items such as rings. This logo can be used on your letterhead and website. You are on the right track to date your pieces as well. I take images of each piece and then create a Word Document with the image and a description. I give a printout of the document to the client with a short bio attached. Best of luck to you, Fred Zweig » reply Hi Fred, Great advice...I'm
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 4:29pm
Hi Fred, Great advice...I'm working towards the Historical document...I've created the form in Pages from iLife. So would you say that the information you give with each piece is a Certification of Authenticity??? I love it! Who would suggest I contact for the stamp? Thanks, Jamie Santellano » reply Makers Mark
visitor -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 9:24pm
Rio Grande dot com offers stamp making for identification. It's a great source of supplies, tools and other things for jewelry artists. » reply Jamie, The document is for
Fred Zweig -
Friday, November 21, 2008 - 2:40pm
Jamie, The document is for my use and the client has something they can save for insurance as well. By including an artist statement it makes it personal and the client has always appreciated the documentation. There are folks who give each piece a unique inventory number as well. I no not think I would want to go to the effort of stamping individual numbers into each piec I make. Best, Fred Zweig » reply After reading some of the
visitor -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:02am
After reading some of the other comments I would agree that if your signature competes with the significance of the ring, ie the couple's names, then I could understand the clients desire. It's not that the ring shouldn't be signed, just that it should be signed so that it doesn't compete with their names. Ahhh, the subtle nuances of business. Jake » reply  I guess I'm going to be the
Rich Waugh -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 9:34pm
I guess I'm going to be the odd man out on this one. If I have a client who wants a piece unsigned, then they get it unsigned. I go by the Golden Rule - they one with the gold makes the rules. I want their money and they want my work, so we trade. Signature, no signature, initials, fingerprints, who cares? I guess basically I'm a simple tradesman more than an artist. I'm good with that. The only thing I refuese to do is to make a piece that replicates an antique and send itout unmarked - all of those get the date stamped in them so they cannot be fraudulently passed off as genuine antiques. Rich » reply Thanks Rich for your
Jamie Santellano -
Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:26pm
Thanks Rich for your comments...After taking a walk out in nature today and contemplating the reasons I first started creating my Art, I realized that this commission thing has gotten way out of hand. I want to conduct business a certain way, and it's definately not in the same way I've been doing hair for the past 14 years. I answer to everyone who sits in my chair, and do as I'm told. Honestly I'm tired of being at a job with stagnant creativity. Now I'm starting to have some of the same feelings at what I'm doing now, and I don't want that, so after reflecting...I have a steady paying job through a big jewelry co. in Hollywood, and have a couple of hair clients a month, and if I start taking much less commissions it leaves time for me to create the things that I want to make, and not what others want me to create. I can enter shows and sell to those who want to buy from me, and those who don't...fare well. May sound ego driven, but if I went to the Co. I do work for and said I want you to create a piece for me, and by the way don't stamp it they would laugh me right out the door... I know what I really want and so at the end of the day I guess it's up to me to follow my heart. I don't create to make others happy I create for me. Thanks for your comments. They are greatly appreciated. Jamie Santellano » reply Well, I'd say that this
Rich Waugh -
Friday, November 21, 2008 - 6:41pm
Well, I'd say that this episode has definitely been vaqluable to you, Jamie. You've used this opportunity ot further define what/who you are with regard to your artwork, and that's never a bad thing. Only you can decide what works for you, and it sounds as though you have done just that. Congratulations, that's a real important step to take. I have to say that when I was still working full-time for the cop shop, I did my metalsmithing strictly on my own terms and it was great. Now that I am doing it to eat on, I've had to re-adjust my priorities a bit. That's okay, it isn't forever. Few things in life are, in fact. Keep up the good work and don't worry about what other people think. In the final analysis, you only have to answer to yourself. As long as you are content with the way you're going, that's all that really matters. Rich » reply Rich, Your post has really
Jamie Santellano -
Friday, November 21, 2008 - 8:54pm
Rich, Your post has really touched me...and yes you are truly right about setting priorities straight, and nothing is forever, for it is forever changing. That is what is so beautiful about life. Thank you for you kind words and the great support. Cheers, Jamie Santellano » reply |
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ArtMetal
Hi Jamie, I think you did
Hi Jamie, I think you did the right thing. First of all, if i were to have you make a ring or anything else for me, I would want your signature to prove you actually did it. Secondly, from an artist's and businessman's point of view, you never let something out of your studio that someone else can take credit for. It might be best in the future to have it in the contract, but for this one, worst case scenario, buy it back and sell it to someone else, unless you absolutely need the sale. Principles are everything and they should know better. At the same time, you don't ever sell yourself short and you don't let your pride drive you out of business(the two principles are often at odds with each other, lol). My advice is to push as hard as you can to leave your signature and get paid. Then learn from the experience and put something in your contract that states the signature thing. I realize that it's a ridiculous thing to have to do, but do what ever covers your fanny. Sorry about the experience, these things always seem to creep up when your making headway. Be honest and be fair, with that as your guide you can't go wrong. Frustrating as it is, keep your principles and spirits up.
Jake Balcom
Mettle Design
Lincoln, NE