Proper concrete for footings and distortion correction

Fabrication

I'm currently working on a rail that is to be installed in a pre cored retaining wall with 3" dia. and 8" depth for posting. The stancheons are 1" sq. tube 1/8" wall.I generally use mechanical fasteners but since the holes were there and on fairly accurate 6' centres I decided totake advantage of them....... Question: what is the best mortar/concrete to use and should the metal (aside from being powder coated) be treated with some type of coating for longevity.
The bottom of the stancheons are open and the tops where they meet the top rail are %100 welded. One reason I'm concerned is some rail on an apartment I occasionaly repair which is set in sometype of dense dark grey concrete like (?)fixative has horrid corrosion, and although the welding on these is extremely shoddy ( ie. incomplete fusion, holes in welds, excessive porosity allowing water to get in from the top)I wonder if the installation into the fixative was suspect? These existing rails are no older than 30 years old.

Since I'm on a wordy tangent I have two other querries,

One is that of distortion correction or prevention techniques or literature that aren't directed towards ship builders and the like ( has anyone ever used Wagners 3 chock straightener?)

Two, possibly the unanswerable one that of bidding or pricing standards for non-commercial architectural metal?

Pointing me in any direction for any of these would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you


Canaday Designs's picture

Hi J4,

Hi J4, and welcome,
First off, pour-stone is the product I use for cored aplication, and it sounds like the rusted rail your talking about is because of poor fabrication and finishing of the railing.

as to the straitener, it works great just take it slow or you end up with a dog leg

and pricing, ha ha ha, good luck

#1 - your only as good as your last job
#2 - you will learn when it costs you
#3 - when you figure out the answer to bidding let me know

the bidding subject is a bit tricky, every geological area is difforant as to the market and demand, also every smith is difforan as to how much there end product is WORTH.
I for one would be more than happy to share money isues after I have seen your work. Not to be rude, but the product always comes first.

Matt


J4's picture

Thanx Matt and Enrique

Both very good answers on all points. And Matt, Ha Ha on pricing is exactly what I expected. It's definitely a tough one. I've often felt as if I were charging to much and to little at the same time.

Further more, you are both brilliant artisans and I learn much from viewing your works. I will try to get some JPEG's
up as soon as I buy an airporter for my Mac.

As far as geography goes I am in Seattle
Thank you again.


webminster's picture

I use roofing tar to coat

I use roofing tar to coat the part of the metal which will be inside the concrete. Apply liberally and wrap it with plastic until installation. The reason for the plastic is because the roofing tar does not dry very well, and since you will be applying a thick coat, it likely not to dry until months later.

My understanding from talking with an architect is that the tar prevents the acidity from the concrete from passivation to the steel.


alex b.'s picture

i concure

Alex b. here in California, i don't know were you are, most contractors use "pour stone","rockite", which are name brands for non-shrink, it actually expands about 15% to fill in all the cracks, self leveling, sets in 15 minutes type mixture that comes in 10lb box's or 5 gallon buckets. King Architectural Metals {kingmetals.com} has the rockite and manufacture says does not have any additives that promote rust. $41.95 per bucket and they ship and will send you a free catalog. {i don't work for them, just use their stuff.}
When i install steel this way i always seal the bottom with primer and paint, if project is to be painted.
if powdercoat, then it is already coated.
if patina clear coat on part installed in the set.
i have used the "tar" as in "henrys" roof emulsion on the bottom of red wood 4x4 post for wood jobs, but have't used it on steel, but this does sound like it would work there also.
hope that helps.
as far as bibbing---------wow, i trip on that all the time.
from talking to clients, other contractors, and my wife, and even God. when a job is a straight forward time and material job, {meaning something basic like repetitive panels, or basic gates, or what ever it is you do, and all it will take is cut, weld, finish, install, i add all that time and material up, add on my profit margin and that is it. a very good piece of advice i got from someone, some were said, do not bid against some else or compromise your minimum needs financially to do a job. you will only regret it. bid it on what you must have and stick to it. i always tell the client that it is not my money any way, it is my wifes and my kids,and my churches. if i have to come down a little it is only in that "profit" zone and then it still is only a little.
one more,{i wonder if there is a message limit on these chat sessions?} as far as the "custom" jobs go. my experience has been bid as before,but also add on for that extra time, which is always more then you think it will be. extra time for me is the drawings, and re-drawings,the measuring and remeasuring, the changes and extra finishing touches that only you know about but must do so you can sleep at night and not worry that someone will see it later. the change in patina formulas cause it didn't come out right. the dreaded unknowns. and last is the fact that they want you to share a part of your self that is personal, your talent and heart for better then average, and better then they can get at "home depot". most clients who want "custom" know and expect this, if it is not special, they will let you know, and if it is, they will let you know that as well.
good luck and God bless you and yours.