source for manganese bronze

Welding

Hi everybody - I'm reading Nathan Cabot Hale's book "Creating Welded Sculpture" and in it he uses manganese bronze. I can't seem to find a source for stock or rod. Anyone have suggestions, or perhaps a substitute for manganese? Does any flavor of bronze work?
Thanks for the help,

Rob


Rich Waugh's picture

I'm not familiar with

I'm not familiar with manganese bronze, but I use a fair amount of silicon bronze and love it. You can forge it, weld it, machine it, do almost anything with it.

Using a TIG welder, you can create invisible seams, and it doesn't outgas fumes like brass and some other bronzes. I forges either hot or cold (very easily at a low red heat), and it has a very pleasing brownish hue that really glows with handling. Tough stuff, too. High tensile strength, good section modulus, etc.

The only drawback is the price. Sheet is running around $15/lb, some bar stock the same, some a bit lower. Wonderful stuff, even if spendy!


alexandra678's picture

Welding Bronze

Hi,
I'm new to this community and saw your comments about welding silicon bronze. Do you use Everdur alloy C65500 with filler metal ERCuSi-A ? I have MIG welded steel rod sculptures for years and am interested in using the same process with bronze with the option of welding on cast pieces as well.

After doing some research online I have found a lot of different alloys and wonder which would be the best to use. The expense is another consideration, as is the level of toxicity. So I welcome any advice!

Thanks,
Alexandra Limpert, Sculptor


visitor's picture

welding bronze

Alexandra,

I have been doing bronze foundry work and finishing for 20 years.
As to your question about welding silicon bronze,,,, Everdure is all that I cast/use and I use Everdure bronze filler rod. I use TIG but would consider MIG for some work, but all in all, I feel TIG has the benefit of being able to weld, without adding filler material which at times is invaluable for my operation/setup.

As to the different alloys, Everdure and Herculoy are the 2 most common bronze alloys in the art casting industry. Problem with the Herculoy (I my opinion) is that it contains zinc and 1: it fumes, spits and sputters upon welding, and 2: when heated to welding temperature the zinc burns off and thus the alloy components in the weldment changes and most all the time the weldment material takes the patina differently than the rest of the material, NOT good in an art casting. The alloy components of Everdure are copper and silicon,,,,,,,, nothing to burn out and thus the filler material is NOT different than the body materials, thus both take patination equally. Herculoy is supposed to pout more easily than Everdure (because of the zinc) but as I have never poured Herculoy I do not know this for a fact, but I am sure there it is correct. However, a bit better pouring from the zinc does not seem to out way far easier working/welding metal matching,,, again, just MY opinion. Also, Everdure does NOT have zinc fuming off while welding, but as with ALL copper alloys, you still have the toxicity of the copper to deal with as you see fit.

As welding bronze materials into your pieces,,,,,,, give it a try, with both. There are also other bronzes (mang., alum, phosphor, etc.) and there are even more types of brass. "Old" sculpture was often cast in a copper tin alloy (ancient bronze) does take patina very well but I have never had to weld this alloy (but was sure fun on the patina table!!!).

Hope this is help.

John Dach
MLCE.net


alexandra678's picture

Thanks for the Bronze advice!

John,

It was great to read your post, and way more valuable to me to hear about your experience than to read pure technical advice in a manual. This is also the first I've heard of Herculoy Bronze. You answered a lot of questions.

Many thanks,

Alexandra Limpert, Sculptor


Gene Olson's picture

Manganese bronze propellers

Manganese bronze propellers have been in common use since the invention of the screw propeller in the 1800s. It may have more to do with the guy coming into a cache of old propellors than choosing the material. They used to come up on auction once in a while and I saw people get the them for pennies a pound. (quite the investment, eh?)

Extolling the virtues of whatever you happen to have makes a good sales pitch.

G.

Gene Olson
Sculptor
Elk River, MN


visitor's picture

Manganese Bronze

Would most likely have been selected for it's exellent welding properties. Must be worked hot in a very narrow temp range (1150-1450F) Therefore, silicon bronze, wich also welds easily, and can be cold formed, and is readily available is a better bet.