glass is an amorphous solid that is in a transitional state of matter,unlike your metal, it has no lattice structure. because of this, scientists are still in a disagreement about what it really is. it isnt a natural material, in the sense that it occurs because of man,lightning and fires on the beach do not have the proper balance of materials to behave like what you would call glass(there are thousands of different types of glass).becasue of its questionable state of matter, it never turns into a liquid, it can flow when it is hot(near its average melting temp of 23-2400 f) like a room temp honey would, it can bend like tangy taffy or tar paper at lower temperatures. and so like forging it needs to be reheated in a chamber to maintain its working state, after wards like an enamel it needs to be annealed. there are many different ways to work with glass perhaps if you could ask a particular question i could be of more use to you!

what pictures would you like to see? of a particular process? or a type of sculpture?

i always like this guys stuff:

Looks like Dale Chihuly's work to me. Not exactly my "cup o tea" but many do like his work, to say the least.

Rich

nothing i posted looks anything remotely like dale chihuly's work, that guy is a hack and i cant stand his work. where on earth could you possibly see any relation to his work in those images? 'slike saying tony smith's work looks like albert paley's? in the lingo of metalese...

I personally like his work.
It may lack depth but then again he only has one eye.

I`m a bad man and I couldn`t resist,I`ll take my whipping now and get it over with.

PS-I have some roses named after him.Does that redeem me just a little?

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.

hahah! no whipping! to each his own, but dale hasnt really done too much with his glass, aside from hire the right people and market his work a certain way. its actually not all that bad i have seen some great pieces by him(one from the late 70's stands out at the Corning Museum in NY), but there are so many more talented glass artists out there that should get more recognition than they are getting simply because they werent born into $$ you know how it is..:)

I'm interested in learning how to meld glass with my forged iron work in a way that is more nearly fused into it as opposed to being "added on" with clips, bezels or other obvious mechanical retention methods. I haven't really had the time and opportunity to work with this concept, nor do i know what type of glass would be most appropriate to use.

I like the idea of incorporating some glass for the transparency, the color possibilities and also for potential use in lighting applications. For lighting uses I suppose mechanical fasteners of some sort are probably more appropriate due to maintenance and replacement issues over time, but for other stuff I'd like to try some casting in place and/or fusing. There's the difference in coefficients of thermal expansion to consider, though. Once solidified glass isn't all that flexible and might not like steel shrinking around it too much. I'd like to learn how to get around that problem.

That's a start on what I want to learn, the list is probably endless. I love to learn new things.

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

Rich

ahh i see... like this type of work?

well...there are many different ways to arrive at a solution to a particular challenge, all are correct. casting is most likely your best bet, this allows you to make castings that can fit into other materials after they are forged etc. once you forge a shape, make a wooden or plaster model that fits it and then cast it in glass,the shrinkage in glass is relative to its thickness(like waxes cool,fast when thin and forever when thick and possibly tearing when the two are close to one another)but again the solution is usually only discovered after spending thousands of dollars and all your life figuring stuff out, yes? therein lies the fun.

you should make a wax that is solid, not hollow. you may NOT invest the wax with ceramic shell, but rather invest it(with a large cup, you can just make a huge mound of clay at the base of the wax pattern) in a fifty fifty mixture of plaster and silica flour(200 mesh is what is generally used) by volume.after this sets up to the touch i wait 24 hours to dry it.at this point the wax needs to be thoroughly steamed out of the mold(NOT burned out!)this can be easily achieved by renting or procuring a steam cleaner and rigging it up to the inverted mold with a garbage bag over top of it,ususally you can just prop one end of the mold (upside down)up on a brick and stick the steam wand into the cavity.after you have steamed for a few hours and you are sure all of the physical wax has been removed, you may then move the mold into an electric or gas kiln to be fired with glass in it, at this point you can do a few different things.since you dont have hot glass to cast from a ladle into the mold, you will be melting pieces of broken glass into the mold in a kiln. take the mold to the kiln and place cup facing up. by hand and very carefully gently place as much broken glass as you can into the cavity,until it forms a mountain on the top.at this point the mold is charged with glass ,devoid of wax, but still has plenty of wax that has been absorbed into the mold that needs to be removed.this is done in tandem with the firing of the glass, to begin with to dry it you may place it in an oven that is at 215 degrees (the temperature that steam happens at is 212 degrees) soak at this temp for one hour for every 1/4 inch of thickness and then take it up to 500 degrees for a another soak (not as long as the previous) and then continue up to 1000 degrees for the calcifying to take place.after you have soaked at 1000 for at least two hours you can then send the kiln up to 1550 degrees for a period of time, this duration is dependent on the amount of glass you are trying to melt, you may find that you need to shovel more glass into the top of the mold while it is at temperature to complete its charge.once you are sure the glass is melted and the mold is full you will again bring the temp back down to the annealing point of the glass(usually around 900-1000 degrees again depending on your glass if your using bottles use 1009 degrees as your annealing point. hold at the annealing temp for 1 hour for every 1/4 inch of glass and mold thickness, then you need to slowly bring it down to its strain point(890 roughly for bottle glass) this is a crucial point the rate at which you approach 890 is three times as long as your soak , so if you soak for two hours at 1009 you take 6 hours to get to the strain point etc etc. after you have readched your strain point hold for a about a half hour and let things level out in the kiln,after this take about three hours to get to 750 and another two hours of holding at 750 then take four hours to get to 500 and hold again for an hour or so at 500 then just let is crash DO NOT open the kiln until it has been at room temp for at least an hour.you will most likely be able to figure this out after wasting a few hundred dollars in time and materials.good luck!

Thanks for the detailed reply. I think I will need a proper kiln, my furnace for bronze would be too difficult to control the temps. If I ever get around to it I will post some pics

That description of the process does tell me that it isn't well suited for what I want to accomplish. The level of equipment involvement is above what I want to get into, at least for now. With many tens of thousands of dollars invested in metal working equipment and a shop that is claustrophobic already, the glass casting sounds like a non-starter for me. I guess I need to look at alternate solutions that are less involved, or perhaps forgo the idea altogether. It's a bit late in the game for me to learn an entirely new discipline to the extent that appears to be required. If there was a glass person locally I would happily work with them to achieve my ends but sadly there isn't.

Is there any type of glass that can be successfully melted, globbed, glopped, slumped, drooped or dribbled (you supply the correct terminology, it's your milieu) into a steel framework with not much more than a torch or simple forge? I've done one bit of glass slumping thirty years ago and got away with it but I can't say that I knew/know what I was doing wit it. That was back when I was doing some stained glass work. At this stage in my career I'm just looking to embellish my iron work with some colorful bits that are weatherproof and reasonably durable, but I can't abide something that ends up looking pasted-on or cheesy. Maybe glass can't be made to do what I need. I don't know, which is why I ask.

Thanks for the detailed casting explanation. That was very helpful even if only to tell me that it won't work for me. On with the search!

Rich

well i gave up my entire life to build a foundry and a glass shop all under one roof,it's do able but remember, a glass furnace runs at 2000-2400 degrees twenty four hours a day year round(or until it breaks)so not only do you have to build it(30-50 grand) you have to feed it every month.and that just keeps it molten then you have your electric kilns for annealing etc etc etc. a cruel master, which is why i love my bronze foundry! it's a dream compared to the glass.

Glass is indeed a demanding master. Steel is a dream by comparison - I fire up the forge when needed and shut it down when I don't. Runs on (relatively) inexpensive propane. The steel just sits there quietly gathering rust when not being worked and doesn't place any demands upon me. And yet, by the time I have all the anvils, forges, power hammers, milling machines, lathes, welders and ancillary machines and tools assembled, the investment approaches a quarter million bucks and decades of my life. Doesn't leave room for a mistress, I'm afraid. :-)

Any glass techniques I attempt will have to have a remarkably low level of sophistication and investment as both my finances and attention span are about exhausted by now. Melting a few marbles may be about as involved as I can manage.

Rich

I've forgotten how to post correctly, sorry everyone. The artists name is Rick BEck. Thought I was posting one of those nice big pictures.
KevinW

you could totally get away with doing the embedded marble technique the trick is to cool it as slowly as possible i would even go so far as to say leave the forge at around 1200 degrees for a half hour after you put it in there and then start to lower it for another hour and then seal it up and "crash it" it is technically not annealed at that point(nor is the one you have, although it is intact for now)but as you said it will survive at least another thing to bear in mind is the volume of glass, the larger the more risk of breakage.try keepin the first few you try small and you will have better chances good luck!
p.s. rick beck!

i do projects all the time for people in glass and bronze . it can be very hard on both sides to communicate exactly what is needed.your piece above looks easy enough from a technical standpoint ,in glass. they could have matched the ruffling that you have going on in the metal piece a bit more,you should make them tools(metal molds coated with kiln wash) to slump into, to use for your glass(glass people know absolutely nothing about metal in general)and offer trades? also woudl allow you to dictate the end product in terms of its shape more. good luck!

Stephen Fitz-Gerald
Can basket shapes (for lighting),be made in steel 1/4 inch steel rod that a glass blower could blow into and have survive or does the basket shape have to be made in bronze to survive the expansion/contraction of cooling?
any suggestions on how to make this process successful.

i have a particular area of specialty when it comes to your question sir. yes it is very easy to do what you are suggesting, if i am understanding you correctly. i think what you are saying is would it be possible for you to form steel "basket shapes' to have a glass blower then fill with a bubble so that the glass protrudes from between the steel? if that is the case then it is simply a matter of not allowing the glass to encase the steel, the glass blower needs only moderate pressure to fill the steel form and the glass should be on the cold side when doing this. the glass will simply shrink away from the metal upon cooling, but only a negligible amount.as long as your glass does not fully envelop or surround the steel it will be fine.if it does it still might survive but it's a gamble. the COE of most glass is around 98, similar to copper's.copper is one of the few materials that shares this COE ,and so it is ideal for use inside glass but it still will crack the glass if you physically entrap the metal by say blowing the bubble so much through the basket that it cant draft.post pictures of a sketch or something if i am not understanding you properly steven!

p.s. the other issue is how to finish the tops, the glass blower needs to be able to break the glass off of the pipe if there is no way for them to attach another rod tipped with glass to stick to the bottom to work the lip of the piece then you would need to provide a small opening dead center in teh pieces floor for them to attach to so they can reheat the lip and fire polish it or open it out i will post a picture of something along these lines brb

i made this for my lady to water her plants with. is this sort of along the lines your talking?

Stephen Fitz-Gerald
EXACTLY!
I have Sacred Geometry 1/4" wire frame models in stainless steel that I could see becoming embellished by this process ,and many candelabra type basket shapes in steel that use one candle...
Failing to have a current client to sponsor these "explorations",are you ever open to trades?