Suggestions for making threads on a sterling bottle

| |

I'm looking at making a small sterling bottle and I want to put a screw cap on it like flask. Unfortunately, I have NO IDEA how to even begin to make the threads on the bottle, no less the cap.

Basically, I'm making an oil bottle and need to be able to screw the lid down to engage the gasket. I've run over a couple of ideas in my mind about how I might go about this, but none of them seem a good way to go.

Any suggestions would be great. I imagine it's a matter of having some kind of a mandrel with the threads cut into in and then forming the neck of the bottle to those threads, but something is telling me that I'm really missing an easy way of achieving this.

Thanks,

Marshal  Although not the same size, etc.  This is more or less what I'm trying to accomplish.Threaded sterling perfume bottle: Although not the same size, etc. This is more or less what I'm trying to accomplish.


Gene Olson's picture

Hm interesting. I'd like to

Hm interesting.
I'd like to hear from someone who has done it as well.

If I were working on it and the material was thin enough. I would make two bolt like mandrels the larger the same pitch and the od of the smaller plus 2x thickness of the material, and chase the threads in.
If you have the engine lathe to cut the mandrel threads, it could also be used to chuck up the mandrel and chase the threads down with a roller "dull cutter".

Gene Olson
Sculptor
Elk River, MN


Gavaksa's picture

This sounds simple enough,

This sounds simple enough, the problem being creating the mandrels. That could be done by creating the mandrels in wood using a wood threading tool and then working back from that.

I do not have access to a lathe in any form, so that's something I would have to work another way.

Marshal


Nathan Logsdon's picture

This may be a stupid idear-

This may be a stupid idear- but what about using ACME thread and a nut the next size up? Wrap the threaded rod with the nested pieces and after annealing try running the nut-very slowly. I don't know if it would work but it's seems kinda like a helical insert type thing.


scrollerbear's picture

I have done this somewhat

I have done this somewhat satisfactorily by cutting a nut in half (of the thread needed) and then pressing the halves of the nut over a bolt covered with a blank metal pipe shape. This necessitates hand work to finish the threads. I used a pipe die to thread a piece for the male side on the container. Of course you don't get the "rounded" style of threads.

The wood threading tap and dies are made of hard wood and have the "rounded" style. I wonder if the metal was soft enough if they would work?

A tool machining supply company might have metal cutting tap and dies that will do the "rounded" style thread.

scrollerbear


B.J. Severtson's picture

threaded cylinders

Threaded neck and cap. I think I'd start with wrapping some half round wire around a suitable sized mandrel. Let's say 1" tall. I'm going to do this on a press. Using the concept that when I smash a piece of rubber It gets thin under the press, that material moves to the side. It takes the vertical pressure and makes the pressure go horizontal. You will need two silver cylinders that telescope each other and will both fit over your mandrel. seamless is best. Neoprene instead of rubber. I'll have to make a tube of it about 1" thicker than the cylinders. put a release agent between the telescoping, soon to be parts. could be plastic wrap. insert the mandrel. put the cylinder of neoprene over that. put a tight fitting pipe section over the package. use your socket set to find a cylinder that fits between the pipe and your hollow about midway. press it. should produce two threaded to each other cylinders. That's the concept. Very doable very quick. Anneal before pressing. hydraulic necking. On your form is just a matter of setup on the press. Brad


B.J. Severtson's picture

for fun

For fun check out the work of Lee Marshall, Cynthia Eid and Michael Mc Cory. Should get your creative juices flowing. Brad


ambition's picture

diverent aproche

here's an idiea(hope i can expain it clear anough in english)

someone at my school made round box with a screw top lid once.

he mad a drawing iron(again dont no if its the right word. what you use to draw thread)shaped like this

[| |] [| |]
---------------------
--------vvvv---------
| | | |
------[]----[]-------
---------------------
[| |] [| |]

ok not a very clear bleu print. it basicly two rectangular steal bloks with two heavy bolts at the sides. in the midle you file the profile of a screw(the vvvv). when you take a strip of silver r whatever soft metal you are using you can draw it in between the bloks(fixed in a vice). every pass you tighten the bolts a bit more.

in the end youve got a strip of silver with the groover you want. you can bassicly use this principle to make thread into whatever shape you want
now you can roll this around a mandrel(mandrel is jus a round rod at the diameter you want wright?)
and saw it off. now bend your tube to be slightly so that the groves don't line up straight but in the spiral of a screw. solder it. hammer it around a mandrel with a rubber hammer and carfuly work your seam with files without damaging the grooves.
now just repeat the same proces with the lid only whit theg grooves on the inside(be careful not to damage the grooves with the mandrel.
now this princyple doesn't work for very well on small diameter tubes but the i think i could do it on your example pic(thoug the size doesn't show)
what was youre diameter again?

ther are some details about the drawing iron that I find kind a hard to explain. if youre realy interested in this idea I could post a pic. I hope you catched my drift and understand what I ment.

goodnight, ambition


Gavaksa's picture

Wow, now that is a really cool idea.

Having a little trouble visualizing what you are describing but I think I've got the overall concept. A draw plate that you would draw the sheet through that presses the grooves into the sheet with successive passes. Once the depth is reached that you want you cut it, roll it so that the threads align with an offset and solder it.

That is a REALLY cool idea. Even if it's not the way to go for this, I've got to play with it.

Thanks!


ambition's picture

my schematic didn't work.

my schematic didn't work. the blog seemed to have some trouble with the spacebar.

annyway the concept is great because you can use the tool again and again for diverent diameters. I saw someone at my school use it for a quit a big box.


Dick C's picture

I've made threaded pieces by

I've made threaded pieces by wrapping two wires around a rod, "unscrewing" them, solder one around the rod and the other to the inside of a tube. This was for screw clasps on wide bracelets.  Oughta work fine here.


Gene Olson's picture

Wow, lots of ideas, high and

Wow,
lots of ideas, high and low tech. . .
Sounds like he came to the right place to find people screwing around.

Gene Olson
Sculptor
Elk River, MN


Dick C's picture

I found something...

I found something I'm good at and I'm sticking with it.
;-)


Gavaksa's picture

Simple enough, cool!

Now this sounds like something that even I could do. =)

Do you think 1/2 round would be a better fit or just more annoying to work out?

for a 3/4" diameter on the neck of the bottle about what gauge of wire would you think for the threading? Need enough thread to be able to engage the gasket, but not so much that it gets "fiddly" to open and close.


marilyn's picture

This is what I was going to

This is what I was going to suggest. I have never done it but have read about. I don't know that there would be any benifit to me digging around to find which book but I guess that I could if it would help.

marilyn


Rich Waugh's picture

I suppose I'd probably try

I suppose I'd probably try to roll the threads on the lathe using a radius wheel and progressively harder pressure until I got the right depth. That would get the male threads, now what about the female? Perhaps chuck up the male threads (hard from the last rolling pass) and spin a sleeve onto them with some parchment between the two for clearance. Burn out the parchment and unscrew the femal from the male. Might work, just brainstorming what I'd try if I was determined to make rounded threads in tubing.

What I would probably do in practice, is to make three pieces of nesting tubing and then cut a spiral slot in the middle one to engage a stud or two on smallest one. Solder the middle one inside the largest one and you have the female. The smallest one with the stud(s) becomes the neck of the bottle. A slow ramp on the slot should give you a tight seal on a gasket with about a quarter turn, I'd think. More screwing around.

This was a really great question, with a bunch of good possible answers!


Gavaksa's picture

Lots of great possibilities

Wow, the very example of "more than one way to skin a cat".

I've got a myriad of ideas to try now! =)

I'd been thinking about the 1/4 turn pin and slot idea, but what I really want is true threading. This has been done by hand since the 1800s. There has to be a simple way of doing it. Simple being relative of course. A lathe powered by steam is still a lathe. =)

Thanks so much for all the input folks.


Dick C's picture

I don't know why that didn't

I don't know why that didn't occur to me... A lathe would be the surest, most precise, method. I have a Sherline lathe with the threading attachments, so I know they're out there. Perhaps you know someone with a lathe that will do threads. Since you're cutting with a single tool, and can take as shallow a cut as you'd like with each pass, it's possible to cut threads in very soft and thin materials.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned casting yet... It also occurs to me that I've seen small bottles with cast necks and caps attached to fabricated bodies. To hand file crude male threads in a hard rigid wax, then form the female around the male in a softer, more pliant wax wouldn't be too difficult.


B.J. Severtson's picture

casting it

Well if casting is the method of choice. Why not avoid all of the wax work ? Grab one of those plastic bottles under your sink, invest the cap and a section of the threads from the bottle. Cast away Brad


marilyn's picture

Don't tap and die sets do

Don't tap and die sets do this?

marilyn


Gavaksa's picture

Tap and die

Yeah, a tap and die would do that, but they CUT the thread and I don't want that. Tap and die also creates a sharp thread which is not what I'm looking for. I want to get the shallow rounded threads.


Janice Fowler's picture

In case anyone wants it -

In case anyone wants it - there is a tutorial available for 4 bucks from Lap Jrnl that shows the method referenced of using a coil of wire, spacing the coils, cut in half, solder one on outside of a tube, the ohter on the inside - presto - screw.

Here is the link:
http://www.lapidaryjournal.com/jj/1299jj.cfm

HTH!

~Janice