Hi Daedalus,
I really like the idea using pop rivets like a cleco. Thanks,eh...
Frank

Hi,Daedalus,
I forgot to sign in. But,yeh,the pop rivets to hold things tight is perfect.
Frank

Hi Crquack,
The hole is in the horizontal (under) portion of the rocker/frame of the 95 Buick.The patch includes the vertical, and horizontal portion of the rocker panel. A profile of the patch is an 'L' shape.So half of the L is glued to the good body part and the bottom half is glued to what panel still exists,with the edge welded to the original weld seem under the car. The hole is 3" x 12" after being cut to good metal. The patch is 5 3/4"wide before being bent and 34" long, so there's quite a bit of bonding area.
I searched the web for a panel adhesive that could bond two non-porous surfaces. I came up with one consumer adhesive that fits the need. Its a polyurethane construction adhesive called PL Premium. Spraying a mist of water on the applied adhesive,before putting things together, will cause it to cure. Its under five bucks for a 10 oz tube.
The 3M car adhesive is far superior, but is over $50 a twin-tube and is designed to be applied at the narrow weld seem, a different gluing task.
Well, that's what I learned today. Thanks everybody.
Frank

I tried the PL Premium some time ago. I did not like it for my applications because it came only in large quantities in the cartridges and also it was hard to work with - high viscosity. However, when it came to gluing stones together it was probably the best one I tried if you wanted to leave the stone structures outside and not have them disintegrate in the heat as happened regularly with epoxies.

Beware: Here they started selling "PL Premium" glue in small bottles. I bought a bottle only to find that the stuff inside was nothing like the stuff in the cartridges! It was basically similar to Gorilla glue, Sumo and others which I find useless for anything other than wood-to-wood application (for which there are better glues anyway).

Having said that I would be interested to know how you fare with the PL Premium in your application so keep us posted.

crquack

I`ll bet he didn`t worry about fender benders or where he parked it either.
A concrete car would laugh at shopping carts.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.

Hi Daedalus,
I'll build an art car someday, but probably out of steel though. I have to admit that a concrete car would demand respect...
Frank

Hi Rob,
You made my sides ache I laughed so hard...
Frank

Hi Bigfootnampa,
I think the Pl Premium is a similar product but in a tube that a caulk gun can dispense.Thanks,eh.
Frank

Do you do any stress testing of the joints?

crquack

Stephen Fitz-Gerald
I used to be a welder at Reliance Trailers (called slam bangers) cause the empty trailer body slides nicely into the truck body.Often seen on the left coast pulled by Peterbilts.
We used that 3M adhesive a lot and it's the best glue I've ever used...hands down.
I had no idea it was that expensive though.
I wish I had stock in 3M...Their products are pretty much the best in my humble opinion.

Hi Stephen,
This is a "beater". If I was restoring the Buick, I would weld everything as Rich suggested.The closest thing 3M offers as a one part adhesive is the 3M 5200 urethane marine adhesive, which goes for around $20/10oz. tube. Its more product than I probably need in this application(good under water).
3M makes the best stuff hands down and their marketing department knows it too $$$$$$. I'm just trying to add a couple years of usefulness to this old sled. I do see quite a bit of potential for the PL premium in other steel/non metal marriages.
I also learned that its a real bad idea to use expanding foam in any automobile cavity. The stuff is basically a sponge.
Stephen, your real life experience with metal to metal glue is precious and I appreciate your willingness to share,thank you.
Frank

I have to disagree about the foam. Closed cell foams do NOT soak up moisture. Open cell foams are different. Urethane foam (which is closed cell) I have used to seal leaks in walls and roofs and it will not soak up water even after months of immersion. On the contrary, urethane foam will deny moisture any entry to cavities. It also glues itself to the interior walls of any cavity thus sealing out any condensation as well as any actual water. The stuff is very UNlike a sponge. It is particularly useful for cavities where the interiors cannot be accessed to sand prime and paint and would otherwise be fully vulnerable to the ravages of moisture. Through even a small hole you can inject it and by drilling a small exit hole opposite you can completely fill the void in a way that no other approach can achieve and for a pretty reasonable price besides. Just take as example the small panel you have just overlayed... I imagine that not all of your welds are watertight and that given the proximity to water that such panels frequently encounter it seems likely that some amounts of water will find their way into the void where they will evaporate and recondense until a good percentage of their water content has had a chance to convert to rust by reacting with the steel. If that same void were filled with urethane foam those small pinhole and minor crack leaks would be sealed and the only moisture attack possible would be from the exterior (which hopefully would be thwarted by the presence of primer and paint). Whomever told you that it was a real bad idea has given you real bad advice and I urge you to test it for yourself. The one caveat is that these foams are not very heat resistant and so all welding in the area should be completed before injecting the foam.

Hi Crquack,
How do you stress test the joints?
Frank

I grab one end and pull at the other :-)
There is a hand grip failure, plier grip failure, vise failure and BFH failure...
Then there is the fine judgement of what kind of failure one can afford.

crquack

Hi Nick,
This car was born a "boat". Mentioned new struts to my mechanic and his reply was that this car came off the assembly line a floater.
Read the argument promoting urethane foam, but believe that the foam would accelerate corrosion regardless of its own moisture related characteristics. I chose to recreate the original venting by sealing the (corrosion caused) holes that allowed the wet salt and water in.
I will fabricate a special jack attachment that can disperse the force over a larger area and keep it in the "HUGE" trunk.
Recently read about a new and improved for 2011 crossover that, with FWD not even AWD, gets a fantastic 25 mpg highway and 17 city,and had to laugh. This 15 year old "FWD boat" gets 27 highway, 19 city and comfortably holds six adults and five bodies in the trunk.You pay dearly to be able to drive one of those wind catching crossover SUV beasts with a commanding view.
Frank

Looking good, Frank - before long you'll have a second career!

Rich

Thanks Rich,
What I really need to be doing is hammer welding a 47 Ford. I do however, love to discover the structural designs inside a "modern" car. I'm in love with heated seats too.
Frank

Move down here to the Virgin Islands, Frank - all the seats are warm. (grin)

Rich

Hey Frank,

didn`t know about the salt ally, oh well that makes all the more fun and challenging I guess, as the salt is hygroscopic. Probably the best time to do it would have been in the summer when there`s a low relative humidity, but what the heck, you don`t want the beater to last another 40 years more, do you ? Ciao.

Hey Nelson!

It IS summer here in the Northern Hemisphere. (grin)

Rich

Hi Rich & Nelson,
Here's a picture I took yesterday, just outside from the house.We're just past the peak of the color season here in da "UP".There's a fire in the stove. The smell of apples and Cinnamon fill the house.I like to burn Black Cherry in the wood stove this time of the year, so you can enjoy the aromatic smoke outside.I Know... it won't be long before I'm blowing snow with Rosie(my tractor).
Hot cider, anyone?
FrankOctober Sky in da UP

Nice colors, Frank. Late Summer and early Fall are great times of year up there. I wouldn't want to be yooper during the winter or the early summer with all the black flies, but you do get some beautiful weather at other times. Enjoy it while you can!

Rich