ArtMetalsocial networking for the metal arts |
|
Need advice fast
eligius1427 -
Sunday, July 6, 2008 - 1:42pm
finishes Hi all, I need some advice on permalac and buffing/additional coats. Backround: I took a job to refinish a steel chair made by another artist out of railroad components. The steel had been ground with a swirl finish and clear coated with a clear powder coat. The chair was used outside and over the years had started rusting of course. The client contacted me to have it stripped, remove the rust and put the swirl finish back on, and have it clear coated with powder coat. Round 1: I had the chair stripped, removed the rust, and put the swirl finish back on. I contacted the powder coaters asked if they could clear coat, informed them that it was freshly sanded raw steel, and that it was an art piece, they said no problem. One week later i called to see if it was done, and when i found out it wasn't i asked if had started rusting. It'd be easier to get the rust off before the finish was put on rather than have to strip it again. They assured me no rust and coated it two days later. As you could guess there was rust on the two arms, right up front, with the added bonus of fish eyes and runs. Told the company that this wouldn't do and that it needed to be redone, at which point they informed me that they now were not able to do the job. Nice. Round 2: The powder coat company stripped chair, very shoddy job at that as well. I finally got the excess powder and rust off and put the ground finish back on and contacted permalac for options. I ended up going with Permalac 2K and found a car detailer to put it on. He did a nice job painting the chair, however when he wiped the chair down with the degreasers, the rags left lint on the chair. In the end he painted over the lint and now there are all of these bumps all over parts of the chair. He tried buffing them out i guess, but said that didn't work. He's afraid to paint it again, due to worries about lifting(?). The Problem: I have a chair with some sort of curse on it that needs to be delivered Wednesday July 9th at the latest(that's the day they're moving to a new city). I obviously have almost no effective resources or knowledge base on finishes/finishing here in Lincoln, NE. Any suggestions on how to fix the finish on the chair without having to strip it and refinish it again(which I have no time for) within the next 2 days? Can you buff out permalac 2K, the painter says he's never worked with a product that acted like this, or do i just have to admit defeat, return the chair as is, cross my fingers that the client won't notice thousands of bumps all over her chair, and more than likely, eat it? I'm quickly coming to the belief that there are very few people that truly know their craft, and it's starting to drive me nuts. Jake Thanks Dick, I just picked
eligius1427 -
Sunday, July 6, 2008 - 7:31pm
Thanks Dick, I just picked up the chair and you're oviously right, buffing was not the answer. Wherever he buffed, there are cloudy streaks. I'm going to try to find another painter tomorrow and suggest the sanding and recoat, i think that is very sound advice. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Jake » reply ![]() It sounds like a very
visitor -
Sunday, July 6, 2008 - 3:51pm
It sounds like a very difficult situation,but maybe the client would appreciate it if could explain the situation to them,and what has happened and give them a contact in there new city. » reply Hi Jake, I`m not an expert
NELSON -
Sunday, July 6, 2008 - 4:25pm
Hi Jake, I`m not an expert myself, but I don`t leave lint on my finished work either. Truthfully, I`ve not worked with that Permalac product yet, but I suppose the fix trick may work as well with similar already applied and dry compounds. Actually, the procedure of applying a coat,let dry, fine sanding, applying another coat... is a standard procedure with a clear polyurathane for protection and nice finish surfaces. This product is very prone to leaving tiny little bubble bumps specially on the first coats on a porous surface. Its recomended that the coat is quite dry, and I even use a soapy water solution while sanding for a smoother finish, and don`t even get to 600 grit, 220-300. Though, the 600 will take you longer to get the bumps, you`d get a near perfect finish, so yes I`d say Nick`s advise is quite right! Good luck Jake. Nelson. » reply Thanks Nelson, I'm no
eligius1427 -
Sunday, July 6, 2008 - 7:45pm
Thanks Nelson, I'm no painter at all, but I think i might try to learn after this. I think your's and Dicks advice is very sound and I will suggest that to the new painter tomorrow. For the first and second time(within 10 days of each other) in the eight years i've been in business I have had two companies not only screw up, but then immediately give me the project(unfinished or screwed up) and say we can't help you any further. There have been times(now is one of them) where I just wanted to give a project back and say "Sorry i didn't give you what i promised, but there's nothing more I can(substitute 'want' here) do. Here's your stuff back. See ya!", but my pride always prevented me from following through. By the end of tomorrow night I will have put in 50-60 hours on a 6 hour project, and may not get paid for it, just so I can try to salvage my reputation. I know that you all do the same thing and probably have fought similar issues, but sometimes i wonder if any of the other tradesmen and women in Lincoln, NE feel the same way. Today, I'd have to say NO! That's probably not true, but I feel like screaming right now, so there you go. Thank God there's a site like this where I can turn to. Jake » reply Jake,I have much the same
Rich Waugh -
Sunday, July 6, 2008 - 11:06pm
Jake, I have much the same experience that you do with shoddy so-called "craftsmen." I detest them and all their ilk. Lightly scuff snad the bumps down to level, clean with a mild solvent like mineral spirits or ethanol and wipe down with a store-bought tack cloth and then re-shoot with the Permalac and you should be okay. I'd test the solvent wipe on the underside of a piece someplace where it won't show in case it pulls the finish any, of course. On the re-shoot, you probably should lightly fog on the first coat or two to make sure there is no intercoat sand-scratch swelling happening before you shoot the flood coats. Best of luck with it. This is exactly why I do my own finishing and too many other things that really should be subbed out to a competent subcontractor; I can't find the mythical competent subcontractor. » reply ![]() Powder Coat.
visitor -
Monday, July 7, 2008 - 6:41pm
Jake, I would like to take this as an opertunity to comment on powder coating in general(if I may be alowed). A freind owned a large facility that powder coated their own products, and those of others. Another freind was the production manager. My personal opinion is that powder coating is a nice finnish for items which will alway be inside, where they would not be subject to rust, even if unpainted. These gentlemen tried every thing from giant steel shot wheelabraders to humidity controll, to same day cleaning and powder coating, but the finnish was really only viable for their own product, gym equipment used indoors. Powder coating is an expensive joke for outdoor use. For less than twenty percent of the cost of powder coating, I have my work hot-dipped in zinc, sprayed with epoxy primer, and automotive top coat. The rust stains visible on the chair prove my case in my opinion. John Christiansen » reply Powder coating problems
Nic East -
Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 8:22pm
I used to have work powder-coated until an expensive pair of antique lanterns literally fell apart in the coater's oven because the solder melted. It cost me $2500 to make my client happy. I went to plating after that and nothing ever fell apart either. Nic East, Jim Thorpe, PA USA » reply |
|
I've only done a little
I've only done a little painting, and have never worked with Permalac, but if it's properties are at all like automotive lacquer I'd try to lightly wet sand the "bumps" out with somewhat worn out 600, or finer, paper. Clean well, then re-coat. Buffing doesn't sound like the right solution for small bumps.
Good luck.