 ArtMetalsocial networking for the metal arts |
|
Copper solder for soldering copper?
eligius1427 -
Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 12:46am
copper | soldering My girlfriend was looking for a copper colored solder to solder copper to avoid the silver line of silver solder(sounds like some sort of tongue twister):). Someone from Ganoskin suggested using a pre-1981 penny(hammering it and drawing it out then cutting it into strips). From what I remember from school the difference between soldering, brazing, and welding is temperature and the intermixing of metals. My first question is has anybody heard of such a solution for soldering copper? If so, how is it possible to solder a metal with the same metal? Wouldn't the temperature to melt one be the same to melt the other, making this welding? If this is actually soldering, can someone please explain the difference between soldering, brazing, and welding? Normally I probably wouldn't give this a second though, but usually the information from Ganoskin is pretty good. Jake  Jake, You're correct in your
Rich Waugh -
Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 8:46am
Jake, You're correct in your understanding of the differences between soldering, brazing and welding. You can TIG weld copper, but it take a LOT of heat and a very deft touch to avoid meltdown. Soldering is far easier if you don't the higher strength of welding or silver soldering. I don't know of any copper-colored low melting point solder, but they come up with new stuff all the time so there may very well be one available now. Back when I was doing stained glass work, we used a patinating chemical that turned the lead/tin soldera copper color. I would think that might solve your problem, perhaps. Check with the stianed glass supply places or boards for more info. » reply  Thanks Rich and Don, We'll
eligius1427 -
Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 10:58am
Thanks Rich and Don, We'll look into both. Jake » reply  Harris 0 rods are supposed
walker -
Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 11:18am
Harris 0 rods are supposed to be an great color match for copper. Walker » reply  welding copper
don thibodeaux -
Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 6:46pm
I use the Harris 0 phos-copper rod the oxy-weld very thin copper. I is tricky, but it works well and takes patinas. Here's a picture of the copper » reply  welding
B.J. Severtson -
Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 7:52pm
Jake. » reply  My solution is to silver
visitor -
Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:17pm
My solution is to silver solder with my usual silver solders and when the last soldering is done, copper plate it by using "blue" pickle and a piece of iron. If there is a lot of buffing, filing, sanding to do, do it first as the copper plate is thin. marilyn » reply "blue pickle"
Summerlander -
Friday, April 18, 2008 - 8:37pm
What is "blue" pickle? Can I make it using Citric acid pickle solution? » reply  Sorry to be so slow to
marilyn -
Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 8:31pm
Sorry to be so slow to answer this. I think it does not matter what the pickle is. I have used Sparex and Phdown (swimming pool chemical) which is a more pure form of Sparex. After the pickle has been used for a while even if just for silver, the liquid becomes blue from the dissolved copper. This is the copper that plates out onto silver. Now if you are working silver and you put the silver into the pickle and in a moment of forgetfulness, pick it out with steel tweezers, you will copper plate the silver and you do not like that. In this case, put enough of the same pickle into a container to cover the silver piece. Add a glug glug of drug store hydrogen peroxide. This makes a short lived pickle that will remove the pick coloring without you needing to sand it off. » reply  Copper Solder
paisleymermaid -
Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 1:08pm
FYI, they do make copper solder. Are you still looking for it? I found it on ebay and will research exactly who I bought it from if you want. Otherwise, try doing a search on ebay for it. » reply copper solder
visitor -
Sunday, March 9, 2008 - 2:17am
When you use the copper solder please post how it came out. I am new to soldering and am very interested in doing copper poeces. » reply soldering copper jewelry
visitor -
Monday, July 28, 2008 - 7:46am
I am also beginning to experiment in copper jewelry. Right now I am just using copper wire to make jewelry, but want to learn to solder. My husband bought me a 750 degree electric solder, but I have no idea how to use it. Do you need to take a course in metalsmithing? Will an electric solder get hot enought to use with copper? If anyone out there knows, please post. Thanks, Susan » reply Susan, You can solder copper
Rich Waugh -
Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 1:15am
Susan, You can solder copper with an electric soldering gun or iron, but only with soft solder. Soft solder is primarily made of tin and/or lead, with various alloying elements added. It will hold things together, but it does not have near the strength of the high-temperature solders generally used for copper, silver and gold jewelry. These so-called "hard" solders melt at temperatures between about 1100 degrees and 1600 degrees (Fahrenheit) and a fuel gas torch is generally used to do the soldering. If you are working primarily with wire, sof solder will most likely not have enough strength to keep the wires together, due to the limited contact surface area. I strongly suggest you obtain and study one of the good books available on the subject of jewelry making and metalsmithing. I highly recommend Oppi Untracht's "Metal Techniques for Craftsmen". It is not, however, inexpensive. You can often find used copies of RObert Von Neumann's "Jewelry Making" pretty cheaply, as it is a commonly used textbook for introductory metalsmithing courses in colleges. These are only a couple; there are a dozen or more that are worth reading and that will give you some of he background information you need in order progress in this endeavor. Good luck with it and keep us posted on your progress. » reply "copper solder"
Summerlander -
Friday, April 18, 2008 - 8:35pm
Hi, I have been using regular Stay-Brite silver bearing solder with a small propane torch. Yes it is silver in color. Buy a product called Super Brite copper patina for solder and follow the instructions. The product is made by Novacan and they also carry other patina colors. I was so happy to find that it worked really well. Now my solder finally matches the copper. You can find it easily on the internet, I ordered mine from Tracy's Stained Glass Workshop or at a stained glss shop near you. Josey » reply Copper Solder
visitor -
Tuesday, August 5, 2008 - 2:22am
I founds some copper solder on line check out the link below... Copper Wire Solder Copper Solder 20g Easy - by the Foot. Price: $0.75 Description: _ » reply Copper Solder
visitor -
Friday, November 14, 2008 - 12:29pm
I have been using the rawtreasures copper solder and have been very happy with it, too. » reply Raw-Treasures Copper Solder
visitor -
Sunday, March 1, 2009 - 4:32pm
Hi Jenny I am using just a hardware store torch and the end result was Raw-Treasures Copper Solder just balled up on the jump-ring and did not flow at all, similar to a cold joint with low temp. solder. I am not sure about the flux if there is any in the solder at all or it has to be added. There also could be a anti-tarnish coating on those jump-rings, but I would thought the torch would handled that. If either if these are a problem what would be the best way to handle them? » reply Bob, You need to have the
Rich Waugh -
Sunday, March 1, 2009 - 6:39pm
Bob, You need to have the metal clean, that is, freshly sanded or scoured with pumice to remove al loxides and then you need to use flux. I like Battern's Self Pickling Flux, or Handy and Harmon's HandyFlux. Some borax dissolved in water to make a paste will also work. » reply Bob, You're very welcome! I
Rich Waugh -
Monday, March 2, 2009 - 1:09am
Bob, You're very welcome! I got interrupted on that last post and neglected to mention a thing or two. For homemade flux, I use a mixture of 2 parts borax to one part boric acid dissolved in boiling water to make a thick paste. Once the mixture has cooled to near room temperature I think it to the consistency of cream by adding alcohol. A couple of drops of wetting agent like Ket Dry (sold for electric dishwashers) or Kodak Photo-Flo will help the flux to flow out on the work. I also heat the wire solder and dip it in the flux to coat it so it doesn't oxidize when it gets heated. Then just heat the parts to be soldered and when they get to a bright red bring the solder to the joint and it should soon flow into the joint nicely. The borax/boric acid fluxes leave a glassy residue on the surface of the work after soldering. This can be removed by boiling in water for several minutes and then scrubing with a brush. Rich » reply stop copper tarnish
visitor -
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 - 12:21pm
Is there a product that I can use on copper jewelry to keep it from turning green or tarnishing??? » reply  Joining Copper Baths via Fusion welding
Vic Tecklenburg -
Monday, February 2, 2009 - 4:51pm
You can also a few overlap sheets along joints and run a flame at melting point along a thicker seam to fuse them.( Heat Fusion Welding )
For more pics of Heat Fusion Welding on Copper Baths see: » reply  That tub looks amazing
colinalexander777 -
Monday, February 2, 2009 - 5:27pm
Would it be possible to fuse flat sheets of copper together at the edges , and grind down the seams to a fairly uniform thickness? » reply Joining Sheets
visitor -
Thursday, February 5, 2009 - 12:03pm
With a bit of practice, if you just overlay sheets ( 1mm )you can certainly do fusion welds, one burns a few holes initially but you will get the hang of it over time. » reply  copper colored solder
lin -
Tuesday, February 3, 2009 - 9:40am
Jake, Josey mentioned the patina (I think the name is Stay Bright) that can be used over regular solder. I have used it and it works very well and is easy to use. You just clean the flux with alcohol and then apply the patina. I buy it from the local stained glass shop. Lin » reply copper solder
visitor -
Friday, March 6, 2009 - 3:40pm
there is a store in Baltimore, MD called Terra Firma (owner named Bill - (410)602-2232) that carries metalsmithing supplies, including copper solder. It's wire, about 22ga, 1/4oz for $2.95. I soldered 18ga copper sheet to 5/32" diameter tubing (wall=.8mm thickness), using a butane torch. It flowed pretty OK. Although, I imagine that if I was using acetylene or propane, it would have flowed much faster. It flashes like silver solder when it flows. nadine » reply copper soldering
visitor -
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 12:27am
I do enameling and have cut out several leaf shapes from copper and want to solder them together to form a bowl that I will then enamel. Enameling is putting ground glass onto the copper and heating in a kilm at 1500F. I have done this before using copper wire melted with my oxy/acet torch to hold the pieces together, but it didn't create a great bond. I do not know if I could use the silver solder as I don't know it's melting point and the weld has to stay together when in the kiln for 5 minutes or so. I have tried to find the copper solder at Raw Treasures but had no luck. Since all the leaf pieces are the same thickness (18G), I don't think I could fese weld them with great results. I am looking for any suggestions as to how to join copper pieces together preferably without a silver solder showing. Enamel will not adhere to it. Christie » reply Christie, The harder grades
Rich Waugh -
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 9:12pm
Christie, The harder grades of silver solder, "Hard" and "IT", both melt above the temp for enameling, so they ewill work just fine. I've had no problem with enamels sticking to them, either. Copper sheet .040" (18 ga) can be TIG welded just fine, too. It takes a good machine and a deft touch, bu tit gives a true, autologous fusion weld if you're really adamant about not using the silver solder. The copper-colored silver solder from Raw Treasures is about the same as "Easy" silver solder and melts below 1500F. » reply Solder for enameling projects
visitor -
Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 2:58pm
There are several books out on enameling. You might want to read up on soldering and enameling. I'm not sure of the flow temperature of copper solder, but the solder that you should be using is called IT solder. It is a silver solder with a higher flow temperature than hard sold and is used primarily when you need to solder metal that will later be enameled. I have never used it on copper, only on fine silver. The oxidation that occurs when soldering copper might make using IT a little tough, but it's probably the what you should use. nadine » reply |
|
ArtMetal
I have tried several
I have tried several solutions to your question. Using strips of parent material can work,but the melting point is too close. Elecrical wire seems to be de-ox, but again the melting point is two close. I would use Harris zero for best color match. Just don't try to grind it or it will appear bright.