Help! They want Brass!

eligius1427 - Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 1:20pm

Hello,

I was recently commissioned to design some decorative grillwork for a church. They chose to fabricate the pieces out of mild steel and have them powder coated to keep the costs down. The client has since changed their mind and would now like it created out of solid brass to match some existing brass work in the church(300 series brass). I have never worked with brass, but would like to give this a try. I need to do some basic forming, weld or braze numerous connections, and finally be able to polish the whole piece to a shine. Can any one offer advice on brazing or welding brass, the type of filler metal or brazing rod that will blend in with the rest of the piece, ways to protect the surrounding brass during forming and brazing/welding, and polishing the piece out so I can get a mirror shine. Do I need to worry about distortion due to the heat from brazing/welding? Also any tips on material alloy would be greatly appreciated. They want to try to match an existing piece(all that I know is that it is a 300 series brass)which is a rich gold color. The brass on that piece was powder coated with a clear coat to prevent any oxidation. If there is any else I should know please tell me.

Thanks

Jake

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brass commission

Nathan Logsdon - Friday, September 21, 2007 - 9:06am

Nathan T. Logsdon
www.themetalsmith.com
In response to your questions, I would have t almost say yes to all of your concerns. Depending on the alloy, brass can be tig welded,brazed, soldered. If you can justify the extra time in fit up- I would always go with either tig or silver solder. I like solder because it is strong and with a tight joint the resulting line that you would see is minimal. This also greatly depends on the design, material size, etc... Suffice it to say that it can be a bear of a job, but I need more info to be of any help.
Also, check into Farmers Copper for alloys and such. I have worked with them a couple of times and they were great.

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brass commision

eligius1427 - Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:30pm

Thanks for the tips. I called Farmers and they were great. I think i'll try the tig method unless using a wire feed is possible. Will the brass move heat like copper? If so does that make using a wire feed welder difficult? The alloy is 360. I've tried to look up your website, and I keep getting a "site unavailable message". I would like to see some of your work. I'll keep you updated on the project.

Jake

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I agree with Logsdon the

Canaday Designs - Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 11:10pm

I agree with Logsdon the design will determine the proceeder, as for the finish (polished)

EVERY step leads to the finish,

every weld, grind, sand, ... but for the most part, depending on the design, weld the whole thing together then do the polishing. Theres usually no need to pre polish parts.

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wire feed brass?

eligius1427 - Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:42pm

Thanks for the advice. I read in one of your earlier posts you suggested mig welding brass. Is that on option with thinner material(16ga)? The decorative grillwork that I'm working on is composed of various bar stock and strips of sheetmetal. Because of all that is going on it has some joints that could be awkward with a tig. I definitely want a clean finished look and need to polish all joints out.

By the way, I'm fairly new to using blogs. Do I need to respond to everyones posts separately or can I respond to both at once?

Jake

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Hi Jake just now getting

Canaday Designs - Wednesday, October 3, 2007 - 11:42pm

Hi Jake just now getting back to you I've been busy
but
the answer is yes mig will work with brass 16ga to say 1/2 inch or whatever, but I also want to say, mig is not always the answer, for something like that I would probably tig those connections for the sake of control, and possibly less clean up.

Matt

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Thanks

eligius1427 - Thursday, October 4, 2007 - 12:07am

Thanks for the advice Matt. I prefer tig with most materials because of the control. I have not welded brass before, but have been doing some research. Since brass is copper based, does it move heat really fast? If so do I need a preheat? The parts are 16ga sheet metal, 5/16" solid round, 1/4"x1/2" flat stock, and 3/16"x3/4" flat stock. I could try to post the drawing if that would help.

By the way, I think your work is amazing. I hope I can come out west some time and see your work in person.

Thank you for the help
Jake

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Drawing for Brass Grillwork for Church

eligius1427 - Thursday, October 4, 2007 - 12:18am

Here is the Drawing/Design for the grillwork. The "Rays" emminating from the center are 16ga sheet metal, the "vines" are 5/16" sld rnd, the cross is 3/16"x3/4" flat, and outline around the cross is 1/4"x1/2".

I hope the image comes out big enough.
Drawing for Brass Grillwork for Church

Jake

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That design is beautiful,

Canaday Designs - Thursday, October 4, 2007 - 1:12am

That design is beautiful, and in brass it will be even so much more accentuated.

So preheat... not really, just light the tig torch and sit on it for a second, but your REALLY have to watch it. brass just kind of falls out, its a fine line between welding temp and and melting, thats the point were you start cursing and such.

set your self up some samples and get your settings (brass takes a lot of heat) and timings down, you can see the puddle start to form then you start moving quick.

also you can use your 16ga cut into strips as your filler rod using pure argon. that way your alloys all match and you cant see the joint.

Matt

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You'll get no arguments here

Nathan Logsdon - Thursday, October 4, 2007 - 8:30am

You'll get no arguments here Matt. I think that tig'n brass can be as Bill puts it a PITA, but maybe boostin the argon and sittin a bit will do the trick. However, if blow out on the 16 ga becomes a problem, I still would not rule out solder. Stay-silv 15% and a little borax are hard to beat when done properly. Sweating these joints may save your bacon if tig'n doesn't work out.As to the alloy, I don't remember if you gave it Jake, but stay away from red brass with tig. Good luck, post your samples if things don't go well.

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typo on your site

Giusseppe - Monday, October 8, 2007 - 10:45pm

Hi Matt ... nice work .... you might want to change "pursuing multi-medal sculpture" on your front page ... unless, of course, you are after lots of awards ...

Where to bend next ... www.metalgarden.ca

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Love All The Info

eligius1427 - Thursday, October 4, 2007 - 12:18pm

Thanks Matt and Nathan, all of this information is great. I'm so glad I can use the sheet metal as filler rod. I love both of my welding supply companies, but they don't do so well when you go outside the box of what everybody else is doing. I can assure you that not much brass gets welded around here, but I plan to change that. I think I'll try the tig as my first option, and then fall back on the solder as a back up plan. Now I just have to wait and see if they approve the upgrade(ie increase in cost) to brass. Keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks again for everyones help. I'll definitely keep everyone updated on the progress and post picts as I go.

Jake

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why weld

Giusseppe - Monday, October 8, 2007 - 10:39pm

The design is really pleasing and lends itself to a more organic method of joining ... why not use collars, pins, rivets ... that way your finishing of individual parts will be easy...

Where to bend next ... www.metalgarden.ca

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