Thanks Rich, I was wondering if it was a colombian, but i was not sure (it does have a really big C on the mounting bracket). So far the mount is great, I was just outside twisting up some towel racks in 1/2in sqaure. the vice moves a bit in the mounting bracket (not enough to be a problem though), so i was worried i did something wrong. thanks for the kind words, and ideas! How hard is it to twist damascus in a vice? Should you flux before twisting in case it delaminates?

Greg,

Yep, the base "C" and the short, open screw box tell me it's definitely a Colombian.

The reason that the vise is shifting in the mounting when you're twisting is that there are a couple of wedges missing from the mount. You need two thin steel wedges to go between the shoe and the vise leg inside the base opening. You drive these wedges against each other to tighten everything up snug. You can forge them from mild steel just fine; make them with about a 1/8" per foot taper and size them so they have full contact within the body of the base. The shoe, (piece with the little "ears") is only to provide a wear surface for the wedges to work against - it has the ears so it doesn't get driven out the side of the hole when you're whacking the wedges tight.

If damascus delaminates when you twist it, then it wasn't welded right to begin with and flux ain't gonna make it happen during twisting - too much shear force as the outer metal moves around the enter. Make the weld solid first, then twist. If it does open up, finish the twist, re-heat to welding heat and do your forging back to square to weld it all back together.

I hope this makes sense, but if it doesn't, let me know and I'll try to clarify it.

Rich

Rich
I knew it was missing some wedges or something. The plan is forging them up after I get some fuel tommorow. Although, I only have hardenable stuff on hand right now. :( I don't know if i can make it exactly 1/8in taper, but it will be a fun challenge. The spring is too short for the way I have it set up, so it has to be replaced. the mounting bracket to the other part (the U shaped bit) is nice and tight, it is the U shaped bit to the back jaw is the problem, but wedging should do the trick (I used wood ones today, it worked, but they need to be metal in the long term).

The flux wasn't to keep it from tearing, it was to stop it from oxdizing so that it would be easier to reweld (but your answer helped a bunch. Once I get the materials i plan on making a billet or two).
Greg

Thanks a ton for the kind words, they were an absolute blast to make. They were only my fourth and fifth though, so they were not always that good.

I was reading up on damascus making and it may be easier to make cable-mascus the first time around. It should be easier, as it just has to be twisted really tight to be welded. Knocking down the corners is a great idea. So far it has made twisting regular sqaure bars look a ton better.

Greg,

If you don't first sign in, your comment goes in the moderation queue for approval - delays things a bit.

As for Will's note about the corners, that's definitely a good one to remember. As I said earlier, the outside of the billet moves farther than the inside, so shearing can take place at the outside. Knocking off the corners, either with a hammer or a grinder, goes a long way toward minimizing splits and tears at the place that is stressed the most.

Cable damascus is actually a good bit more difficult than a stacked billet, as far as sound welds goes. When you make a stacked billet you grind all the weld surfaces smooth and clean so you get a sound weld. The cable, since you can't grind it, has to be really clean and super well fluxed and you need to weld the ends to keep it together when you twist it. You still have to hammer it to get the weld - twisting alone won't do, in my experience. Most cable is the same metal throughout and the color change comes from the difference in oxidation and decarburization of the outer skin of the strands during heating. Something to keep in mind when working it.

Keep at it, you're getting better all the time!

Rich

Rich,
Thanks for the tip on logging in, I assumed that since I could reply, I was logged in.

Do you know if you could get the same pattern effects if you twisted the billet when it was round? i would assume so, and it would reduce the risk of splitting, Id bet. Thanks for the pointer on the rope billets though, I only have a few dozen feet kicking about, so I was planning on getting rid of it.

Thanks a ton for the kind words. I should finnally have those hatchets finished today.
Happy Hammering,
Greg

Hey Greg,
Like a lot of other blacksmithing techniques you can save making time-costly mistakes with plasticine/play dough/modelling clay (or whatever you call it stateside)- do your pattern experimenting the easy way with a billet of strips of different coloured modelling clay before doing it with a hot lump'o'metal.
The welded cable is nice, because you get a scaley, snakeskinny (but subtle)pattern without lots of drawing out/folding,welding/drawing out et.c. but downside is it's tricky to get it to a deep down welding heat without frazzling the outside. Welding it up you tend to uncoil it a little so twist it some more before drawing it out.
Some cable has a nylon core which is no good, obviously. If you've got some good stuff it needs serious degreasing before it goes in the fire.(I used to soak it in petrol)
You can also make some nice pattern welded blades with bicycle or chainsaw chains - but you have to duck to avoid the bits of link pinging across the workshop!

Will Jones

Will,
thanks for the pointer on de greasing. My forge gets up to welding heat, but barley, so it is impossible to burn anything (I tried, and it won't happen). Now i just need to borrow my buddies cutting torch (insert evil grin here). I do have some chainsaw chains as well, which will be a fun project. happy hamering
Greg

Greg,

Even though your forge just barely gets to welding heat, the soaking time to get the heat to the core of the cable can leave the outside so scaled that it welds poorly unless, of course, you flux it like the stuff was free. Then you have to deal with the flux goo all over the floor of the forge...can you tell I'm not the world's biggest fan of cable damascus?

What Will said about clay is spot on! That's how I work out any patterns I think might work, and also how I solve difficult forging sequences on complex pieces. I can do in less than a minute with clay what would take several heats in steel and even test power hammer tooling with it. Great stuff! Besides, some of us are a lot more years down the road from our childhoods and enjoy playing with our old toys again. (grin)

Rich

Rich,
I do like to flux (there is a bout 20lbs of borax in the garage). If i mess up a cable billet, it was really cheap, or even free. The flux in the forge is an issue, but I keep a sacraficcial brick on hand for moments like that (or I use someone elses forge).

Clay sounds like fun and a good way to practice. Any excuse to make a mess, eh? But, to be honest, I will stick to simple random patterns until I am better at damascus making. Maybe once I get the hang of all the welding and folding as i would hate to ruin a billet trying something like that.
greg

In case anyone cares, I used the vice to twist this up yesterday. It is going to be a kitchen knife (it was 5/8in round 52100)

It isn't a great pic, but you should be able to get the idea.