To Rhino or not

I'm seeking to understand here. To my friends that do computer generated images you have my bravo. I strongly feel that the tech needs to be in the hands of the artists. I'm trying to decide if this method Will get me to where I want to go. I realise that when I've finished writing and reading I'm largely going to have more questions that answers. Maybe we're in the same boat. I remember when quite a fuss was made when an entry to a metals show turned out to be a rendering and not a finished piece of metal art. Seems that the actual making of the piece was well beyond the ability of the "artist, designer Metalsmith" to produce it. In fact quite a bit of tech would have to be developed before anyone could build it. I'm also reminded of MC Eshers graphic work that contained perspectives unattainable in my 3d world. Altered realities. Love them. If I'm faced with the problem "I can draw it but I can't make it or I can make it but I can't draw it" You are just going to have to wait until I get done making it. But I'm not sure that's a choice that has to be made. There's a lot of gray between black and white. It may be that the greatest advantage to digital images is the ability to create very accurate tool paths. In that case my interface with the men in the little brown trucks will continue to be important. As I order my components, made to order. That's a new method of manufacturing. That puts an end to selecting components from a catalogue! or does it make the catalogue more personal and thicker? I cast a series of brass bottles in my college days. They were largely a response to people that were convinced other methods were somehow superior. I could never grasp the whole superior thing. I made the form I was after. Thing is that the objects that I made could be produces no other way. One clearly had my fingerprint cast into it, others had textures I could only get in wax. one contained a drip of wax. It was the nuance (happy accident) that made that one special. A brass nuance. I like the idea of being able to follow my carefully laid plan. I just don't want to loose the nuance in the process. I like the randomness pattern of my planishing marks, equally spaced all the same size just wouldn't be the same. All of that said I have to wonder, Is the only way I'm going to find out if this tool fits my hand is to pick it up?


Frank Castiglione's picture

Go for it...

Hi Brad,
Equipped with probably the least amount of "art" education of anyone in this group, I'll stick my neck out and say go for it.
Personally a clean sheet of paper and a nice #2 pencil is a great tool for me to improve the interface between my imagination and what I create in real life.If I had all that sophisticated machinery and software, I'd end up swirling in a pool of whatever never getting anything else done.Maybe after that piece of sheet metal tell me its whole story, I'll get a new book to read, but I'm still musing the intro page.So much to learn.
Frank


ambition's picture

pfew long postthis is of

pfew long post
this is of course a verry personel qeustion we could all ask our self. how "modern" would I like to be? especiualy with rapid prototyping comming up, lots of jewlers just draw a model with Computer aided design and print or lasser cut it in wax. after that you can just cast a ring in using lost wax methode. you barely have to touch it and youre done.
for my self, I don't work that much with programs like these because I work very organic in nature. but for more cheometrik shapes its a time saver. in the end I think it can add something to your skill, but youve got to be carefull that it doesn't dominate youre style.
don't be scared of a scetch book & pic up drawing. anyone can learn to draw descent but it takes time. learning cad&cam drawing to.


kevincaron's picture

I have to add an "Amen" to

I have to add an "Amen" to both of you. I use "Cad" on occasion and have gotten way to complex of a design a few times. It is great for late night "What would that look like?" sessions.

I still use that drawing board between the ears and lots of chalk on the workbench.


Gene Olson's picture

E cad

Brad,
I have Rhino, or rather Chrissy does, she is the teacher and qualifies for an educational copy.

It can keep track of a lot of information, but to use it effectively your almost need to know where you want to go before you start.
That brings us back to the bumwad and the napkins.

I find they are still best for formulating a "plan" then sketching and rendering in 3d can follow.

I like the newer tools they have come up with for rendering sketch versions of proposals. They give you a lot more freedom in the build phase. Photo real rendering creates unreal expectations in the client, and puts an unnecessary burden on the artist.
Things that are fun to make are not always easy to draw and things that are fairly easy to draw can be real SOB's to build.

Gene Olson
Sculptor
Elk River, MN


Rick Crawford's picture

Rhino or not?

Hi Brad -
I am not an expert in art or much else that counts here, but I am in sheet metal flat layout and CAD. I have used many different cad programs and do this for my living. Having tried and failed at having my own business (I am NOT a salesman), I currently work for others. CAD is where I make my living now.
You will find that CAD, like many other things is a completely different and new thing to learn. If you start on something like this that you have not used before, plan on using a LOT of time to get proficient in it. THAT SAID, Rhino seems to be one of the easier ones to get used to. I use AutoCAD and SolidWorks every day at work and am very used to them, but have been doing this for over 20 years. Have also used about 20 other packages for lesser times and found most of them to have their own quirks.
If you do not use paper to get your ideas to the shop now, you probably wouldn't be better off with a cad program. If, however you do use paper, cad might just be the next logical step for you to try.
We have a couple guys here that use Rhino regularly and do a great job of it. Hopefully they will chime in here with some advice as well.

Rick Crawford at Smoky Forge


Giusseppe's picture

everything helps

well .... I can sketch forever in the forge with metal and that works well until I am tired .... pencils, pens and chalk are great for a while too .....main problem is that after 35 years of doing all that there is a creepy tendency to follow familiar routes .... even when experimenting .... going out on a limb, yes ....but I know the push of the wind, even the crack of wood and the fall ... nothing to be scared of cos I've picked myself up so often .....years ago I found corel when it was very young ( even helped them develop some tools in Draw) then Rhino ...and I made a great discovery ... I could feed seeds of thought into an experiment without worrying about the process of growth ... no safety issues, fatigue was irrelevant, hundreds of variations were born without any concern for time or wasted energy .....best of all are the surprises .....see, I work, sleep,eat,make love with metal ...sketching with rubber sheet geometry is empathetic to such a relationship ....running a hand over anything leaves wonderful memories...guidelines for recognizing a potential texture when forging ... or understanding the eloquence of a curve ....so stretching bezier curves or distorting nurb forms comes very naturally and becomes a form of tango ....a breast,curve of a wave,moving cat tail,soaring under a paraglider....millions of sensual pleasures among which are these unexpectedly mobile forms within the computer ...
as for patrons of my work ... those lovely people who provide enough support for me to do everything .... they know ... nothing I show them at the beginning is anything more than a hint...now darling what have you done ...our daughter doesn't look anything like that sticky goo you showed me at that night ..


Giusseppe's picture

here is one you might find useful

quick sketch on a cone .... line glues itself to the surface.
turn line into a round bar
stretch to see the effect of different cross sections.

making comparisonsmaking comparisons


eligius1427's picture

I do not use modeling

I do not use modeling programs yet, but I do use a combination of computer and pencil for most designs. I often run into snags partway through a design and the computer lets me save and experiment from the same point over and over. I usually end up printing up what I have and drawing on it to move to the next step. I love the pencil for quick idea sketching, move to the computer to develop it, move back to the pencil to work out the quircks, use the computer to make final plans, and finally usually end up sketching the final proposal. If I had a modeling program or knew corel draw better I might use those for the final proposal, but I kind of like the personal look of graphite. I have been experimenting with the Rhino demo and find the potential intriguing.

Jake